I am newish here, but I do know a small bit of Chris Chan only because one of his students has a To Di in my home town. I am not surprised you say his students behaved badly, according to the spoken history he studied with GGM Yip Man for 5yrs. GGM Yip is known for teaching differently based on the students character, meaning Chris like William had poor bahavior Yip supposedly found distasteful. So he taught them a “version” but not enough (again this is only spoken history) to beat those whose character he found honorable that he taught “secret” correctness to. Chris has infused Choy La Foot into his --un…and unfortunately I think many systems have people of bad as well as good behavior now a days…
SiFu Boztepe and the Gracie family argueing back and forth
I was always told Simo was the wife of my SiFu as well…we (Wing Tzun) recently got our first female SiFu in N.Y. so it may be a general definition based on historical tradition which has been changed as society changes…not entirely possitve but something I will be sure to investigate with my SiFu for certain now…
[quote=Punisher;2311415]While I agree that calling a feamle siFU makes as much sense as calling her “sir”, I can’t believe that the Chinese never assumed there would be female instructors. Kung-fu history and lore is practically chock full of female masters.
Wing Chun is was supposely founded by a female (Ng Mui) and named after one of her female students (Yim Wing Chun).[/quote]
Ng Mui is refered to as a Buddist Mistress in my 1990 print of Wing Tsun Kuen…I have also heard her refered to as a Nun. I suppose only it would be to the chinese the same way we refer to a Pastor/Priest=male and a Nun=female. Here state side it does seem we use the generic application of SiFu as all gender encompassing regardless as long as one has the ability to warrent such a tittle
SiFu Boztepe and the Gracie family argueing back and forth
sorry but I must interject here kindly…GGM Yip Man was known as a kind man, but also a staunch nationalist. He did not want us foriegners taught --ing --un, remember he lost all that he had held dear short of his wife and family,his people where refered to as " sick man of asia "…that must have a serious blow to take…
I don’t know that complexity is the issue or question here. The Wing Tsun/Tzun I have and continue to learn does have ground fighting, not in the “submission” sense of course. Any technique that can be applied standing can be applied from the back, and the concepts that apply to the arm are applicacable to the legs if one only stops to ingest them. When I first started down the --un path it 1997 we where all taught “anti-grappling” applications due to SiFu Boztepe and the Gracie family argueing back and forth in our first 5 student grades. Further more those applications where explained directly from form applications to solidify their validity…
I see you found the CMA forum. Nope. We are not entertaining a debate about you claiming the anti-grapple as “grappling.” Or adding little tidbits that have surpassed your understanding.
Ground fighting in Wing Chun - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Female Equivalent of “Sifu”? - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
CMA Forum/How not to look stupid FAQ - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
[quote=It is Fake;2319852]I see you found the CMA forum. Nope. We are not entertaining a debate about you claiming the anti-grapple as “grappling.” Or adding little tidbits that have surpassed your understanding.
Ground fighting in Wing Chun - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Female Equivalent of “Sifu”? - No BS MMA and Martial Arts[/quote]
I never said it was grappling, I believe the term at the forum header was grounding fighting so by definition to “anti-grapple” is ground fighting…that does not qualify as as feces
I never said it was grappling, I believe the term at the forum header was grounding fighting so by definition to “anti-grapple” is ground fighting…
Then that means you didn’t read the thread.
that does not qualify as as feces
You want to discuss what goes on in your WT do it in your own thread.
Just stay out of the CMA forum until you calm down.
That’s not in the least bit true.
[quote=reindo;2321751]I have come across this video per chance as I was watching some chun-related videos on youtube.
The trainer is a German WT Sifu with Turkish heritage, Salih AVCI, who runs his own WT organization in Europe.
YouTube- avci wingtsun anamur2006
what do you think? I have almost zero experience in grappling for I am a judo noob. Comments would be much appreciated.[/quote]
here is the thing to keep in mind, many versions of Wing Tzun(Chun) have ground fighting with in them. The concepts taught standing are applied if one is forced to the ground, we " label it ANTI-GRPPLING " so by virtue of the LABEL to anti-grapple is to fight off anothers various attempts to seize us. Some systems will say they have a more indept way doing this and truely unless one is a MASTER and can thus speak from a complete knowledge of their said system it is either oppinion in general or oppinion based from personal experience. Often once the science of angles has been taught it comes down to just how far the given fighter is willing to go to make it happen…I have been a Wing Tsun/Tzun guy for 12 yrs, and my personal experience is this…WE HAVE GROUND FIGHTING only as a last resort meaning " We/I prefer to Stay Upright and A Foot "…
LET’S SEE IF " IT’S A FAKE " WILL MOVE THIS POST AS WELL
I find it funny you say we don’t have ground fighting…ironically we have a wonderful application for the hold you have for your avitar :-)…any thing that works affot can work from the back…I have been doing this for 12 yrs Hedgehoegy…unless you have acually trained in the --un for more than a decade I am going to simple say you are entittled to believe in what you do, but have no idea what your talking about in refrence to --un applications…
Sigh… ok guys, I was there so here we go.
Simply stated, Boztepe pussed out of the fight, period. I know this because this was for UFC 5, and I was training Dan Severn for that fight.
First, it was both Gracie and Boztepe would fight in the UFC brackets and if they met they met. This was rejected because Boztepe claimed they would put him up against a ringer.
Then the superfight was created, so that it would only be Gracie vs Boztepe. But, Boztepe didn’t like the “rules.”
The Gracies told him he could do anything he wanted, the only reason for the referee would be to stop the match when one fighter was KO’s or quit.
Then Boztepe said such a match was illegal and the friends the Gracies had in the police department would arrest him when he killed Royce…
Needless to say the match never happened. Dan was put into the superfight, and for reasons I have stated elsewhere, that was switched for Ken Shamrock.
If WC has all these effective move to defeat the grappler, THAT would have been a good time to show them. Lacking that, there are any number of Cage fights going on all over the US where you could step into the ring and “show us.”
Till that day, I will continue to say that Boztepe is a pussy, and your WC does not work against skilled martial sports such as Boxing, Kickboxing, Thai Boxing, and BJJ/GJJ…
if you think he is such a pussy go to a seminar and challenge him…that’s what you guys do right…??? why submit to rules geared specifically to a grappler when you train for “real” applications, they are differnt things all together. A sport event and a life and death fight are no where near the same thing, why would he wish to “water it down” so idiots like you can run be entertained…go grapple on broken glass with multiple opponents then tell me how you fell about rolling around on the ground with another man…lol
No
[quote=Cripple35;2322034]
why submit to rules geared specifically to a grappler when you train for “real” applications, they are differnt things all together. A sport event and a life and death fight are no where near the same thing, why would he wish to “water it down” so idiots like you can run be entertained…go grapple on broken glass with multiple opponents then tell me how you fell about rolling around on the ground with another man…lol[/quote]
How did the old UFC rules favour grapplers?
…and now we learn why this post:
I don’t know that complexity is the issue or question here. The Wing Tsun/Tzun I have and continue to learn does have ground fighting, not in the “submission” sense of course. Any technique that can be applied standing can be applied from the back, and the concepts that apply to the arm are applicacable to the legs if one only stops to ingest them. When I first started down the --un path it 1997 we where all taught “anti-grappling” applications due to SiFu Boztepe and the Gracie family argueing back and forth in our first 5 student grades. Further more those applications where explained directly from form applications to solidify their validity…
was removed from this thread:
Ground fighting in Wing Chun - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Also if this is the true case:
Any technique that can be applied standing can be applied from the back, and the concepts that apply to the arm are applicacable to the legs if one only stops to ingest them.
It negates this comment:
why submit to rules geared specifically to a grappler when you train for “real” applications, they are differnt things all together.
Cripple:
You are making a very compelling argument…life and death is very different from sport.
Can you provide a single example of Boztepe killing a person?
no as any wise person he avoids such foolishness…for crying out loud !! The piont being sport and real are apples and oranges. I don’t discount sport fighters are tough people, hell they trade blows and continue to do so repeatedly. The piont being was originally in regards to --ng --un having ground fighting applications…not what any one thinks of my SiFu, given I don’t follow any other Master’s this is the information pool I have to draw from.
This is what I tell my students EXACTLY do with it what you will. To my understanding the martial arts have a specific reason for being at their core, to stay safe and healthy so one may live a life and be able to take care of (how ever that may be) of their loved ones. Those loved ones are the true trophy and glory in my oppinion…I work with average every day people who have good jobs and avoid bad situations but know the value of having the tools to deal with a " bad situation " should it arise. Now that may never happen in which case they get the bennefit of being healthy by vitrue of training, should it happen they at least will have the tools to hopefully walk away with their lives intact to carry on their chosen resposibilities.
so if a guy/woman makes 60-100k a year without having to get their head pounded, then guess what they don’t have a need to prove it in a ring, these are the types of people I train because I value their values and enjoy helping them over come their various fears thru doing what we do. Think what you wish of my SiFu, I can’t change that nor do I care to even try for that matter. If you think he is a fraud by all means go challenge him at a seminar, just have your health insurance up to date because it’s probably gonna hurt some.
[quote=Lindz;2322039]No
How did the old UFC rules favour grapplers?[/quote]
grapplers force a submission or “choak out” the opponent yes…?? so if you sign a contract agreeing to pay for any hospital bills of the person you damage you naturally will be hobbled of you are a striker as by virtue of application a well trained striker causes serious damage…would you want to expend a great deal of time and money only to forfiet the winning purse to cover the other persons hospital bill…??? So it favours a skilled grappler adept at choaking their opponent out rather than a skilled striker.
you made that rule up. anyway, as long as people arent too stupid to tap submissions cause no lasting damage. striking can cause cuts, concussions, dementia etc etc.
First, sir, I never said he was a fraud or a phony, I said he was a pussy.
HE accepted the Gracie challenge then ran like the little bitch he is. If you want a challenge, I am sure Royce is still willing to fight him.
I also have seen the video where he tackles FROM BEHIND another WC guy, mounts then pounds the crap out of him. Again, not the actions of anything but a pussy.
The deadly vs sport stuff has been talked to death over here. Its flummery. WC is simply NOT an effective style in the real world. As I said, there are tons of MMA schools you can go to, and I promise you there are people in there who will fight you no rules at all…
So keep living in a dream world, but WC DOES NOT WORK against a skilled striker or grappler. Have a nice day…