A really proper Muay Thai style round kick doesn’t require much flexibility. If you feel like you aren’t flexible enough it is most likely because your heel isn’t pointing at your target when you finish the kick.
When you did karate, did your teacher emphasise pivot, pivot, pivot? Mine did. And it gave the impression that the pivoting foot was what gave the power, rather than the placement and orientation of the foot. (This might’ve been my mistake, of course.)
My impression is this: Bas is deliberately trying to emphasise the importance of the groin and hips, so my karate experience isn’t repeated. The pivoting happens naturally as you swing. The key thing is to get the groin right.
Perhaps he’s just putting it clumsily?
Almost choked on my drink laughing. Cannot unsee.
[quote=DAYoung;2337474]When you did karate, did your teacher emphasise pivot, pivot, pivot? Mine did. And it gave the impression that the pivoting foot was what gave the power, rather than the placement and orientation of the foot. (This might’ve been my mistake, of course.)
My impression is this: Bas is deliberately trying to emphasise the importance of the groin and hips, so my karate experience isn’t repeated. The pivoting happens naturally as you swing. The key thing is to get the groin right.
Perhaps he’s just putting it clumsily?[/quote]
He’s kicking clumsily too.
I’ll have to take your work for that, Kid.
BUT LET ME TELL YOU THIS, SMARY-PANTS - AS A REDHEAD YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED ANYWAY. HAVE FUN WITH EXTINCTION.
[quote=DAYoung;2337474]When you did karate, did your teacher emphasise pivot, pivot, pivot? Mine did. And it gave the impression that the pivoting foot was what gave the power, rather than the placement and orientation of the foot. (This might’ve been my mistake, of course.)
My impression is this: Bas is deliberately trying to emphasise the importance of the groin and hips, so my karate experience isn’t repeated. The pivoting happens naturally as you swing. The key thing is to get the groin right.
Perhaps he’s just putting it clumsily?[/quote]
Re: Karate
As I recall karate heavily under-emphasized the pivot compared to what I now consider correct. Currently when I make contact my heel is pointing in the direction of my target. In karate as I knew it your leg and hip weren’t expected to pivot past the target so a lot of foot pivoting wasn’t really necessary.
But foot placement and orientation make a tremendous difference in the power of the kick. Taking a step outside the target in the direction you intend to kick shifts the apex of your kicking rotation which determines where your kick is going to have it’s optimum power and then foot orientation will determine how effectively your hips can follow through. The less my foot turns through the less my hips will turn through. The individual parts all play off each other so much that I think they need to be equally emphasized.
FWIW, my experience in teaching is that most people have problems with hip rotation because they consistently neglect to turn on the ball of their foot enough. It doesn’t happen naturally it all, it has to be trained in, and honestly for such a seemingly simple thing it takes most people a LOT of reminders to finally do it consistently. It’s the first link of the chain, if I can’t get people to do it correctly then talking to them about hip rotation doesn’t do them any good.
[quote=AnnaTrocity;2337913]Re: Karate
As I recall karate heavily under-emphasized the pivot compared to what I now consider correct. Currently when I make contact my heel is pointing in the direction of my target. In karate as I knew it your leg and hip weren’t expected to pivot past the target so a lot of foot pivoting wasn’t really necessary.
But foot placement and orientation make a tremendous difference in the power of the kick. Taking a step outside the target in the direction you intend to kick shifts the apex of your kicking rotation which determines where your kick is going to have it’s optimum power and then foot orientation will determine how effectively your hips can follow through. The less my foot turns through the less my hips will turn through. The individual parts all play off each other so much that I think they need to be equally emphasized.
FWIW, my experience in teaching is that most people have problems with hip rotation because they consistently neglect to turn on the ball of their foot enough. It doesn’t happen naturally it all, it has to be trained in, and honestly for such a seemingly simple thing it takes most people a LOT of reminders to finally do it consistently. It’s the first link of the chain, if I can’t get people to do it correctly then talking to them about hip rotation doesn’t do them any good.[/quote]
Hmmm. OK.
I was taught that the heel should point at the target. I was also taught to kick through.
But the link between stepping away and kicking through was never explained. Pivoting was emphasised more. (Or perhaps I wasn’t listening properly.) So I pivoted, but I didn’t step away - the kick was all ‘snap’. You’ve seen a video of this: my technique’s not horrible, but it’s all leg, no hips/groin.
In short: I did precisely what Bas warns against. But perhaps not for the reasons Bas gives.
And I agree with your point about equal emphasis. It certainly would’ve helped me.
(Also: you’re teaching now?)
[LEFT]Feel its time for an update, intended to last night but was a bit tired.
Got a lot of guys/coaches to help out at the gym on this.
-Thing I wasn’t aware I was doing:
Far more so thai pads vs heavy bag, but when it came to rotation, trying to kick my leg up caused less rotation due to me bending forward a bit to reach the leg up, in a sense negating the hip rotation. This wasn’t as big an issue on bag/aiming at torso, but proper posture helped reinforce that problem.
Secondly…targeting. Hard to explain in words, but going “through” I placed too much initiation as an afterthought, not where my target is.
-Things in the thread
A)Hip Rotation, yes as I suspected it had to be a flaw somewhere. Again, was pointed out with posture as well.
B)Indent the bag/person, not move it. Changed my ability to both power and get form down.
I got some nice ones in now, still need to work on muscle memory but I certainly feel a lot of improvement since December. Thanks for all contributions.
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