Crushing someone’s windpipe is not recommended, outside of a deadly force situation?
I’m struggling to see what you are getting at. Pig piles on a person, especially one with some sort of pre-existing health conditions, not a good idea, but used because cops are not generally (I suppose) trained to work together in groups? I mean, I’ve SEEN them work together, with what looked to me like training…
Nothing is totally safe.
Alright. Floyd wasn’t a vascular restraint issue. Neither was he a stroke.
Neither was our famous case of dungary.
Nobody is dying from strokes via vascular restraints.
Which is the point of the article.
(Exept sometimes during BJJ because I looked that up.)
OK, so you are saying, the “pig pile” is worse than a VNR, then?
Top pressure is super dangerous to exactly the sort of person you want to top pressure.
Big guys off their dial.
Well find someone who has died from a stroke or had their windpipe crushed.
It takes a lot of skill to guide a resisting person to the ground, face down, and not crack their skull, and remain in control.
As you well know, I’m sure.
I have to take people into custody in my job. I’m a 3rd degree black belt in Judo, and a blue belt in BJJ. My main problem is not using too much force if I get into a tussle with someone. And I’m a small dude to boot, so can’t rely on big muscles.
Crushing someone’s windpipe is generally considered a not-good look, man.
You are mixing apples and oranges.
Windpipe crushing is a pain compliance measure, or, you are trying to kill the dude.
As opposed to what? Positional asphyxiation and death?
Pushing and death?
And so on.
Not hyperbole I don’t think you will find a crushed wind pipe. So aesthetically not pleasant. Safer than a lot of other defensive tactics.
And that is worst case. Theoretically they might get the restraint right. Or partially right. So a bit of pulling a guys head off with a bit of vascular restraint.
Edit.
Nope. Found one.
Strokes can cause minimal damage, or catastrophic damage, depending on the type of stroke (and other factors, ie so called brain plasticity)
They can leave you with a tic, or paralyzed.
What is more, their damaged can often be reduced or mitigated if rapid medical treatment is administered to restore blood flow from ruptured or blocked arteries.
So, strokes during arrests will not be recorded as deaths during arrests, as strokes are very often not fatal, even if they cause catastrophic permanent damage (ie loss of speech or paralysis), and what it is more, symptoms may not be visible until hours after the stroke occurs.
For delayed onset and progressive stroke symptoms, it is not likely that a stroke that happened during an arrest would be recorded as a stroke during the arrest from a vascular restraint or any other arrest related situation.
But rather, it would more likely get recorded as, inmate displayed signs of medical distress or non-responsiveness in the holding center, when he or she was ultimately examined by the medical staff, or transferred to the hospital, it was determined that he had a stroke in his cell.
Keep in mind, someone (another inmate or staff) would have to notice that the inmate was displaying stroke symptoms, and give a shit enough about it, to do something about it.
And in that case, the person may not die, but may be permanently paralyzed, and/or have lost speech abilities, etc, etc.
Yeah. And to muddy the waters even further people can get strokes just through the act of fighting.
I was looking for stroke arrest deaths and thr cop who died during the capital hill thing was an example of that.
The major advantage of a vascular restraint unless you are being an idiot is it can protect the head and takes weight off the body.
So mitigates fall injury and asphyxia death.
Unless you are in a ground-grappling situation.
That’s not what I took you to mean with your original statement.
I had a stroke when I was 19 or 20, doing Judo, in a very hot, humid environment. My resting heartbeat back then was in the low 40s…
What do you attribute the stroke to? You mentioned the heat, but I wasn’t sure if that’s what you think the cause was.
Heat and overexertion. I wasn’t being strangled.
Felt like a sharp, painful explosion in the back of my head.
I didn’t have any long term effects from it that I noticed.
It was diagnosed by my MD, at the time. I had to take it easy, for some time, as any exertion or increase in blood pressure/pulse rate caused considerable pain.
Like, taking a dump.
The worse part was, no sex, followed by no judo.
Oh to be young again. A doctor could tell me to avoid both of those things now and I’d ask them again what I was supposed to do differently.