MMA and the Christian Right - NY Times - 2/1/10

Dr. Lyle H. Rossiter, Jr.,a forensic psychiatrist, explains the madness of liberalism in his new book The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness. You can read an excerpt below, and read more at his website libertymind.com.

Like all other human beings, the modern liberal reveals his true character, including his madness, in what he values and devalues, in what he articulates with passion.

Of special interest, however, are the many values about which the modern liberal mind is not passionate: his agenda does not insist that the individual is the ultimate economic, social and political unit; it does not idealize individual liberty and the structure of law and order essential to it; it does not defend the basic rights of property and contract; it does not aspire to ideals of authentic autonomy and mutuality; it does not preach an ethic of self-reliance and self-determination; it does not praise courage, forbearance or resilience; it does not celebrate the ethics of consent or the blessings of voluntary cooperation. It does not advocate moral rectitude or understand the critical role of morality in human relating.

The liberal agenda does not comprehend an identity of competence, appreciate its importance, or analyze the developmental conditions and social institutions that promote its achievement. The liberal agenda does not understand or recognize personal sovereignty or impose strict limits on coercion by the state. It does not celebrate the genuine altruism of private charity. It does not learn history’s lessons on the evils of collectivism.

What the liberal mind is passionate about is a world filled with pity, sorrow, neediness, misfortune, poverty, suspicion, mistrust, anger, exploitation, discrimination, victimization, alienation and injustice. Those who occupy this world are “workers,” “minorities,” “the little guy,” “women,” and the “unemployed.” They are poor, weak, sick, wronged, cheated, oppressed, disenfranchised, exploited and victimized. They bear no responsibility for their problems. None of their agonies are attributable to faults or failings of their own: not to poor choices, bad habits, faulty judgment, wishful thinking, lack of ambition, low frustration tolerance, mental illness or defects in character. None of the victims’ plight is caused by failure to plan for the future or learn from experience. Instead, the “root causes” of all this pain lie in faulty social conditions: poverty, disease, war, ignorance, unemployment, racial prejudice, ethnic and gender discrimination, modern technology, capitalism, globalization and imperialism. In the radical liberal mind, this suffering is inflicted on the innocent by various predators and persecutors: “Big Business,” “Big Corporations,” “greedy capitalists,” U.S. Imperialists,” “the oppressors,” “the rich,” “the wealthy,” “the powerful” and “the selfish.”

The liberal cure for this endless malaise is a very large authoritarian government that regulates and manages society through a cradle to grave agenda of redistributive caretaking. It is a government everywhere doing everything for everyone. The liberal motto is “In Government We Trust.” To rescue the people from their troubled lives, the agenda recommends denial of personal responsibility, encourages self-pity and other-pity, fosters government dependency, promotes sexual indulgence, rationalizes violence, excuses financial obligation, justifies theft, ignores rudeness, prescribes complaining and blaming, denigrates marriage and the family, legalizes all abortion, defies religious and social tradition, declares inequality unjust, and rebels against the duties of citizenship. Through multiple entitlements to unearned goods, services and social status, the liberal politician promises to ensure everyone’s material welfare, provide for everyone’s healthcare, protect everyone’s self-esteem, correct everyone’s social and political disadvantage, educate every citizen, and eliminate all class distinctions. With liberal intellectuals sharing the glory, the liberal politician is the hero in this melodrama. He takes credit for providing his constituents with whatever they want or need even though he has not produced by his own effort any of the goods, services or status transferred to them but has instead taken them from others by force.
It should be apparent by now that these social policies and the passions that drive them contradict all that is rational in human relating, and they are therefore irrational in themselves. But the faulty conceptions that lie behind these passions cannot be viewed as mere cognitive slippage. The degree of modern liberalism’s irrationality far exceeds any misunderstanding that can be attributed to faulty fact gathering or logical error. Indeed, under careful scrutiny, liberalism’s distortions of the normal ability to reason can only be understood as the product of psychopathology. So extravagant are the patterns of thinking, emoting, behaving and relating that characterize the liberal mind that its relentless protests and demands become understandable only as disorders of the psyche. The modern liberal mind, its distorted perceptions and its destructive agenda are the product of disturbed personalities.

As is the case in all personality disturbance, defects of this type represent serious failures in development processes. The nature of these failures is detailed below. Among their consequences are the liberal mind’s relentless efforts to misrepresent human nature and to deny certain indispensable requirements for human relating. In his efforts to construct a grand collectivist utopia—to live what Jacques Barzun has called “the unconditioned life” in which “everybody should be safe and at ease in a hundred ways”—the radical liberal attempts to actualize in the real world an idealized fiction that will mitigate all hardship and heal all wounds. (Barzun 2000). He acts out this fiction, essentially a Marxist morality play, in various theaters of human relatedness, most often on the world’s economic, social and political stages. But the play repeatedly folds. Over the course of the Twentieth Century, the radical liberal’s attempts to create a brave new socialist world have invariably failed. At the dawn of the Twenty-first Century his attempts continue to fail in the stagnant economies, moral decay and social turmoil now widespread in Europe. An increasingly bankrupt welfare society is putting the U.S. on track for the same fate if liberalism is not cured there. Because the liberal agenda’s principles violate the rules of ordered liberty, his most determined efforts to realize its visionary fantasies must inevitably fall short. Yet, despite all the evidence against it, the modern liberal mind believes his agenda is good social science. It is, in fact, bad science fiction. He persists in this agenda despite its madness.

Read the book, and ignore the rantings of the insane… November will be fun.

H0ly shit…

Authoritarian government nor collectivism is limited to liberals

Having a government that employs checks and balances is the only method against tyranny

Checks and balances arr agenda neutral

And like the Nazis it was the conservatives who under the pretense of national security a) removed many civil liberties
b) Has done more harm to check and balances in the US government than any Democratic presodent has, including the recent supreme court decision headed by Bush appointed judges in violation of all precedence, removing spending limits from corporations on campaign contributions.

I would just like to point out that the whole reasoning behind the argument of since Satan/Hitler/Cheney said it it has to be wrong is bullshit. However, facts matter. Hitler was a leftist. That was the point of my post.

I would also like to point now that I hate the left. I hate collectivism. I hate the assumption that someone else can make my decisions for me or can send me to jail for stupid shit that effects no one but me. And I hate the right. I hate how they push Christianity into everything. The prolife cause is hurt by it. The school choice debate is hurt by it. The establishment cause in the first amendment is trampled by it. And I hate the hypocrisy: “No more nation building” and then nation building for seven and a half fucking years? TARP and not complaining about what the Fed did with the money supply between the years of 2001 to 2004. The Patriot Act? Screw both parties and the collectivist assholes that run them.

[quote=Goju - Joe;2309128]Authoritarian government nor collectivism is limited to liberals

Having a government that employs checks and balances is the only method against tyranny

Checks and balances arr agenda neutral[/quote]

Okay, Okay…enough with all this “BUSH is a conservative” talk.
That man was not a freeking conservative! He was fraudulent in that distinction.

These were not conservative principals which removed liberties and checks and balances, nor instituted the patriot act. Duh.

This simple assertion pretty much disqualifies any post which contains reference to these ‘republicans’ that act like and might as well be progressives themselves! Look it up PROGRESSIVE. STATIST.

Damn right he talked conservative but hasnt been anything like one.

I dont care what they are called or call themselves- we havent seen true conservative policies for a long time!

Bush initiated half of this crap and now we have re-distribution on steroids in power picking the ball up and running for the sideline (the left one obviously).

If you cant see parallels between not only hitler, but stalin and mao- and Americas slow march towards tyranny road you have no historical reference.

Progressives have been seeking control since before the turn of the century, (the 1800’s not a few years ago) in both parties. By the 20’s they had ruined the word progressive, and picked up the term ‘liberal’. Funny, the literal interpretation resounds of “freedom”. Yet re-distributive factors which have been in play since the “new deal” are not very freedom friendly.

Now that they have tainted the term liberal they are going back to progressive…sounds nifty doesnt it. Elitist toads.
Same with the facist right!

Furthermore, checks and balances?
Yes patriot act is whack, and now Czars galore, unchecked by congress, vetted by no one, accountable to only one. Great. Really checked.

Bet you never heard of the FEMA camps have ya’ll? Its cool, just for disasters only, promise.
Strange shit to say the least.

There is a movement that has been around longer than all of us and its pace has quickened of late. It seeks control, and its days are numbered because it has shown its colors in an information age. Propaganda is alive and well but the facts are not as well hidden.

Notice all the spending? “We gotta spend money to make money”.
Horse shite, not when its not your money you are spending!
Thanks China, I know you have our best interest at hand…what’s the interest?

I am only a business owner, what would I know accept that if you spend it all, you cant necessarily wait for more to come.
And we had the spending first didnt we?
Guess what comes next. Cant wait.
“No tax increases for 95% of America” We will see, soon.

“But, but, bush spent soooo much in his eight years”. Damn right.
Now, we have spent four times that much in a year! Great.

They had to spend the stimulus (bush’s first, which some argue
made the taxpayer money despite Paulsons bungling of deals, then O’s), to prevent catastrophe, accept they hadnt spent over twenty percent after many months! How much went to help homeowners keep their homes? Dick.

Oh we cleaned up the troubled assets in certain
banks, but, still waiting on “household” relief, not for me of course, I dont qualify. The insurance companies that were reliant on the markets and many on “mortgage backed securities” were qualified though.

“The free market failed”! No, federal influence and unregulated financial shenanigans collapsed the markets. Let the businesses fail, otherwise there is no real correction! Propping up bad businesses furthers the extent of the damage!
But, but, we would all blow up!
Again. bullshit, they didnt spend the stimulus for shit and here we are.
What have they spent it on? Look it up. Its sad.
Can you say “Slush fund”?

We’ll foot the bill, again. And survive on the back of American resolve and ingenuity! Watch.

Progressive, Communist, tyrant, call it whatever you want, but you cant say it has worked out for the worker it professes to represent, ANYWHERE IN HISTORY!

Aside from the all the false claims, do actions of our current and last three presidents have many congruent similarities TO THE DAMN CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES!!!

Thats the question
repukelican or dumbassocrat.

Oh, yeah… conservative, constitutional principals does not make one
a bible bashing uber christian, but the disdain for “normal” not fundamentalist, christians is brilliant.
They really are an out of control, homicidal group. Accused of such most often by the eugenicist! Har!
And I do not go to church, or believe in fear based religion. But I dont disrespect someones desire to do so. Isnt that…American?

[quote=Mtripp;2308521]Still??? OK, by the numbers…

(1) Liberals give full support to unionism…so did Hitler…he gave speeches for the largest trade union in Germany.

(2) Liberals want the gov’t to be the primary supporter for the people…so did Hitler…quote…“We demand the state shall make its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens.” Source: Hitler’s 25 Points, NSDAP, 1920.

(3) Liberals attack the rich for existing on unearned income(investments)…so did Hitler…quote, “abolition of incomes unearned by work…” Source: NSDAP.

(4) Liberals have been trying to use gov’t to take control of large corporations for decades…so did Hitler…quote, “Nationalize all business which have been formed into corporations.” Source: Hitler’s NSDAP, 1920.

(5) Liberals bitterly complain about business making profits off war…so did Hitler…quote, “…personal enrichment from war will be regarded as a crime against the nation…therefore, ruthless confiscation of all war profits.” Source: Hitler’s 1920 NSDAP.

(6) Liberals and unionists insist that industry must pay employees a share of profits in addition to wages…so did Hitler…quote, “We demand profit sharing in large industrial enterprizes.” Source: Hitler’s 1920 25-point NSDAP.

(7) Liberals have for years tried every trick in the book to take private land from owners. Liberals have used tools like environmental issues, right of way, etc…so did Hitler…quote, “We demand…expropriation of land for communal purposes…abolition of rent and prohibition of all speculation in land.”

(8) “Nazi” was gutter slang for the verb “to nationalize”. It is no secret that Obama and his cronies wish to nationalize healthcare and our banking system.

(9) The official title of the Nazi Party was “The National Socialist Workers Party of Germany”. Liberal policies are nothing short of socialism.

(10) Hitler came to power by turning the working class, unemployed, and academic elite against the conservative republic. After Der Fuhrer’s election ceased being a political conspiracy and was transformed into a fashionable social phenomenon, party membership was especially popular with educators, bureaucrats, and the press…Liberals have these self same groups in their back pockets.

(11) Being a Nazi was “politically correct”. They called themselves “The Children of the New Age of World Order” and looked down their noses at everyone else. As Hitler acquired more power, he referred to his critics as “The Dark Forces of Anarchy and Hatred”. Political Correctness and “liberal media smear” is a tactic often used by the left.

(12) Right-wing fanatics of the “Old Order” who protested firearms registration were arrested by the S.S. and put in jail for “fomenting hatred against the Government of the German people”. Liberals are anti-gun ownership, anti-war and anti-military.

(13) Public schools rewrote history and Hitler youth groups taught the children to report their parents to their teachers for anti-Nazi remarks…It is no secret that Liberal policies regarding education aim to completely indoctrinate school children to accept values counter to their parents. Even parental rights are under attack by liberals.

(14) Pagan animism became the state religion of the Third Reich and Christians were widely condemned as “right wing fanatics”. Atheistic liberals are doing the same thing today.

(15) Evil was declared as being good, and good was condemned as being evil. Today, liberals hearld every godless abomination their little minds can conceive and applaud it as good, when historically such acts were seen as detestible and destructive to society; not to mention loathed by God.

So, keep on keeping on… and have fun this November.[/quote]

I’ll maybe get back to this later; let’s suffice to say that this is one of the biggest enumerations of Bullshit I have ever read about the topic. Earnestly trying to compare the nazi ideology with the liberal agenda - or, better, anything opposed to the American Republican party is on the same level as trying to debate evolution in favor of creationism.

Are you trolling, or do you earnestly believe this?

Because if you do…

(16) THIS is Republican America’s only protection between itself and the forces of the liberal, socialist, [I]animist/I Nazi world conspiracy:

[quote=Nwp;2309189]Okay, Okay…enough with all this “BUSH is a conservative” talk.
That man was not a freeking conservative! He was fraudulent in that distinction.

Oh, yeah… conservative, constitutional principals does not make one
a bible bashing uber christian, but the disdain for “normal” not fundamentalist, christians is brilliant.
[/quote]

I mean “Bible thumping” uber christian. And by normal I mean average.

[quote=Nwp;2309189]Okay, Okay…enough with all this “BUSH is a conservative” talk.
That man was not a freeking conservative! He was fraudulent in that distinction.

These were not conservative principals which removed liberties and checks and balances, nor instituted the patriot act. Duh.

This simple assertion pretty much disqualifies any post which contains reference to these ‘republicans’ that act like and might as well be progressives themselves! Look it up PROGRESSIVE. STATIST.

Damn right he talked conservative but hasnt been anything like one.

I dont care what they are called or call themselves- we havent seen true conservative policies for a long time!

Bush initiated half of this crap and now we have re-distribution on steroids in power picking the ball up and running for the sideline (the left one obviously).

If you cant see parallels between not only hitler, but stalin and mao- and Americas slow march towards tyranny road you have no historical reference.

Progressives have been seeking control since before the turn of the century, (the 1800’s not a few years ago) in both parties. By the 20’s they had ruined the word progressive, and picked up the term ‘liberal’. Funny, the literal interpretation resounds of “freedom”. Yet re-distributive factors which have been in play since the “new deal” are not very freedom friendly.

Now that they have tainted the term liberal they are going back to progressive…sounds nifty doesnt it. Elitist toads.
Same with the facist right!

Furthermore, checks and balances?
Yes patriot act is whack, and now Czars galore, unchecked by congress, vetted by no one, accountable to only one. Great. Really checked.

Bet you never heard of the FEMA camps have ya’ll? Its cool, just for disasters only, promise.
Strange shit to say the least.

There is a movement that has been around longer than all of us and its pace has quickened of late. It seeks control, and its days are numbered because it has shown its colors in an information age. Propaganda is alive and well but the facts are not as well hidden.

Notice all the spending? “We gotta spend money to make money”.
Horse shite, not when its not your money you are spending!
Thanks China, I know you have our best interest at hand…what’s the interest?

I am only a business owner, what would I know accept that if you spend it all, you cant necessarily wait for more to come.
And we had the spending first didnt we?
Guess what comes next. Cant wait.
“No tax increases for 95% of America” We will see, soon.

“But, but, bush spent soooo much in his eight years”. Damn right.
Now, we have spent four times that much in a year! Great.

They had to spend the stimulus (bush’s first, which some argue
made the taxpayer money despite Paulsons bungling of deals, then O’s), to prevent catastrophe, accept they hadnt spent over twenty percent after many months! How much went to help homeowners keep their homes? Dick.

Oh we cleaned up the troubled assets in certain
banks, but, still waiting on “household” relief, not for me of course, I dont qualify. The insurance companies that were reliant on the markets and many on “mortgage backed securities” were qualified though.

“The free market failed”! No, federal influence and unregulated financial shenanigans collapsed the markets. Let the businesses fail, otherwise there is no real correction! Propping up bad businesses furthers the extent of the damage!
But, but, we would all blow up!
Again. bullshit, they didnt spend the stimulus for shit and here we are.
What have they spent it on? Look it up. Its sad.
Can you say “Slush fund”?

We’ll foot the bill, again. And survive on the back of American resolve and ingenuity! Watch.

Progressive, Communist, tyrant, call it whatever you want, but you cant say it has worked out for the worker it professes to represent, ANYWHERE IN HISTORY!

Aside from the all the false claims, do actions of our current and last three presidents have many congruent similarities TO THE DAMN CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES!!!

Thats the question
repukelican or dumbassocrat.

Oh, yeah… conservative, constitutional principals does not make one
a bible bashing uber christian, but the disdain for “normal” not fundamentalist, christians is brilliant.
They really are an out of control, homicidal group. Accused of such most often by the eugenicist! Har!
And I do not go to church, or believe in fear based religion. But I dont disrespect someones desire to do so. Isnt that…American?[/quote]

Wall -o-text

Anyways what I wanted to point out that trying to connect things to Nazi’s that is is stupid. Like looking at Bush and making comparisons i.e. Bush, republicans. Nazis is as stupid as trying to connect providing adequate health care to Nazis and death camps

And yes true Newt Gingrich killed true conservatism.

William F. Buckley would have shot himself in the head before embarrassing Sarah Palin.

Actually the health care = Nazi’s = death camps is perhaps the single stupidest thing I have heard.

[quote=Goju - Joe;2309312]

Anyways what I wanted to point out that trying to connect things to Nazi’s that is is stupid.[/quote]

what about my watercolors?

Only panssies and commies use water colours

Real men use Oil paint Beeyotch!!!

Fagg!Back when I played Squad Leader, I always chose
the Nazis. If I was lucky I’d get a regiment of Finns as well!

Nothing is more beneficial to morale than ingrained racial superiority!

Also, Hitler comissioned the Volkswagen, a true people’s car.

Politics…you gotta hate it!

While this left = nazi is going on in the US…maybe it’s time to inform you (read Tripp) about something…nazi was right-winged.

Fascisme is extreme right.
Nationalisme is center right.
Socialism is center left.
Communism is extreme left.

With the most important difference that Fascime and Communism only work in a dictatorship.
Nationalisme and Socialism can only work in a democracy.

Can we now go back to Martial Arts, Combat Sports and Aquarel Painting? thanks.

Also, without the Third Reich how would Art Directors come up with such fearsome looking jackbooted villans for their movies?!

Oh yeah, interesting article Steve (&Ross) thx 4 poasting!

Also, regarding this notion that Hitler was some kind neopagan animist:
“As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.”
~Adolf Hitler

“I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator.”
~Adolf Hitler

bet ya didn’t know about that one huh?!? EH?!

Fascism : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition. source–http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

Notice that the definition does not state the side of the political spectrum fascism rests, only that it is a collectivist and not an individualist philosophy. The nazis, though, were left wingers, if by left wing we are to assume they concerned themselves with social justice. I already cited a source on that point. Four years of college as a political science student and all I heard was this:

Fascisme is extreme right.
Nationalisme is center right.
Socialism is center left.
Communism is extreme left
No one ever proved it. Didn’t bother. It was sort of like evolution or global warming–you question it, you’re a nut. Well, I questioned it because the facts don’t match up. It would seem that the people making the paradigm here are trying to say something to the effect that we have to choose between one form of collectivism versus another. I don’t buy it. How about this:

Individualism <------------------------------------> Collectivism

Alright, I can’t get the fucking chart to work, but it should say from the individualist side to the collectivism side: anarcocapitalist, classical liberal, conservative, modern liberal, progressive, socialist, and anarchist.

Hang on, my reply to you was only about govt. takeover of industry and how fascism is left. See SGHM’s educated post.
Sorry I did not quote “Goju-Joe” but I did go in about being Canadian, before I addressed “Joe” specifically in the next paragraph.
So Zendoken, my apologies for not clarifying in my rant #2. The larger portion was more towards Joe. And I have respect and appreciation for Joe, but I certainly contest his opinions in this thread.

I have been waking up at 5am for work, working till 7pm an then Bullshidoing till 1 or 2 am. Not smart. Rambling posts, sorry. And I always enjoy your posts, but believe European socialism is culturally accepted and the norm there. Not here.

I agree, but we are fired up here because ‘hope and change’ has turned into ‘redistribute and cronyism’ that is no change at all for washington. Only amplification. If you are tired of politics why read a religious thread? Religion can turn towards its political leanings and vice versa easily.

[quote=Zendokan;2309959]The last thing I want to say is that here in Belgium, most of us aren’t polorized by one political view.
I myself consider myself as a “centrum nationalist socialist liberal democrat”, which means that in some cases my view change:[/quote]

At one time America followed the most amazing political document in history.
It is still the document of freedom that surpasses all others. And with a population of 330 million and growing, it would be difficult to get anywhere with 10 different polarizations.

However, another party to contest the hegemony of the others would be good. Its called the Libertarian party and the Dems and Reps want it dead. It will take awhile for it to gain footing. Its based on freedom and liberty, but its not perfect. Dems and Reps are not about freedom right now. Bigger, better govt. is their desire. They just keep falling short of the better part!

Your barely coherent wall-o-text ramblings are so over the place it’s hard to even pick a spot

FYI

A) I am a dual citizen US / Canadian and have lived in both countries and my understanding is from experience not what I pick up form Fox and Friends.

So F You and the :

Oh yeah, you are Canadian. WTF do you know about the American pioneering spirit that saved EVERYONE from speaking German? TWICE, lest you forget. I will find my own health care…if we could have some tort reform, and better insurance regulation. I know they talk about insurance reform, show me the plan that will benefit the populace.

Health care in Canada is not world renown. And whats your population? How many Mexicans do you treat for free?

Statement of extreme ignorance

BTW

Canada entered both world wars years before the US. And if Churchill and his common wealth allies like Canada didn’t fight the Germans while the US dithered in WWII there would be nothing to be saved. IF the US supported it’s allies at the beginning and didn’t wait to get attacked first by the w Japaneses millions of lives would have been saved.

So yes a great, arrogant and factually incorrect useless point you brought up

As far as Mexicans being treated for free.

  1. Here’s how you solve the Mexican problem, Stop hiring them - This however will never happen because of the cheap labor the illegals provide.

People like you who complain about “Treating Mexicans for free” don’t actually calculate who much money the economy saves in the slave wages with no benefits you pay them.

The point being is that most illegals get raped by the system that doesn’t want to pay health care for them.

Adequate heath care? Why do euros and Canucks flock to the U.S. for the latest treatments and tech? Why not go to Bolivia? Honduras? What about a apendectomy in North Korea? Or Atlanta? You tell me which you would prefer.
There are great doctors all over the world. 80% trained here! Go figure.

Exactly how many Euros and Canucks are “flocking” to the US?

Aside from people going to see certain specialists who are located in the US where do you get this “Flocking to the US.” BS from - of wait probably your ass.

Atlanta VS North Korea - WTF? Of course that’s the measuring stick for socialized medicine - North Fucking Korea - Idiotic statement

BTW howcome Americans “Flock” to Canada to buy prescription medicine?

Yes competiing with the government is bad. Unregulated businesses is also bad.

The Conservatives removed a lot of banking regulations

How’s that one working out?

The collusion in the health care industry in the US is enoirmous.

$200 Tylenol at the hospital is an abuse.

Any extremes always leads to disaster.

Trying to paint socialized medicine as an extreme that will lead to Nazi like disaster, even though most of the Western World has it and makes it work is still the stupest thing I have heard in a long time.

And Lol at calling me a 19 year old kid. Man you’re fucking arrogant no nothing prick.

I can agree to the all over the placeness. It doesnt discount the fact that our govt. is over reaching and is not benevolent in its concern for our healthcare

Obviously you have not picked up much in the way of understanding how the manipulations of the markets caused most of our financial woes. The Community reinvestment act for one. House loans for everyone, derivatives galore, primarily based on mortgage backed securities. Too bad mortgages werent as dependable as they thought. That was the foundation of the financial house of cards we built.

[quote=Goju - Joe;2310078]Canada entered both world wars years before the US. And if Churchill and his common wealth allies like Canada didn’t fight the Germans while the US dithered in WWII there would be nothing to be saved. IF the US supported it’s allies at the beginning and didn’t wait to get attacked first by the w Japaneses millions of lives would have been saved.

So yes a great, arrogant and factually incorrect useless point you brought up[/quote]

Yay Canada! You guys almost had it licked huh? Har har.

Reading Comp. Joe. I never said anything about “WHEN” anyone entered or the consequenses of our late entry. I wish we did enter sooner and werent isolationists then.
That does not discount the FACT (where the fuck did you get factually incorrect??) that if we did not enter, it would have gone the other way. England and Russia were on the ropes, and so were we initially, with multiple fronts that we could barely keep up with.
Is it arrogant to be proud of the sacrifice MILLIONS (1.5 approx.) of Americans made?
Is it arrogant to assert an accurate statement? Your ass would be goose stepping without the greatest generation. Not to discount the Allies at all, heres to us…but…
Here is some arrogance: The Americans turned the tide of the war and were the strongest presence that pushed back the nazis and the axis of evil.

[quote=Goju - Joe;2310078]As far as Mexicans being treated for free.

  1. Here’s how you solve the Mexican problem, Stop hiring them - This however will never happen because of the cheap labor the illegals provide.[/quote]

Part of the reason there is a market for cheap labor is that PAYROLL TAXES are cost prohibitive for many small businesses. Im not talking income taxes here.
Many small business cannot compete with larger, established businesses due to overwhelming regulation and taxation that is revenue building for the govt.
Nothing to do with the market itself!

Money the economy saves? How about jobs lost?
First of all “benefits” are not rights! They are offered to attract personell, and as a way to take care of your people- IF YOU HAVE THE MEANS.
There is simply too much competition in some industries and areas that wittle the margins down to nill. You want a cheap product? China has it-with no OSHA or child labor laws. It is more difficult here.

No, America is the only welfare Mexico has. Our healthcare is overrun by immigrants and those who dont/cant work-and WE pay for it in the ridiculous prices insurance companies have to pay to compensate.

Raped? Sure, 60 to a 100 dollars a day is pitiful if you have to pay taxes and plan to stay here and make a life. Many do neither.
Contrast this with 10 dollars a week in Mexico IF YOU CAN FIND WORK!

You dont know many Mexicans Joe. They risk their lives to come here because they can feed their families from here. I admire them, I would do the same if I had to. I do not disparage them, it is business and the govt. who allow it by leaving the sugar on the table. I just said many recieve med care without paying.

I know many who wont work for their countrymen because they are hard on each other. They can usually depend on Americans to pay them, no matter how little.
Most would rather be raped here than starve there.

BTW… Billions of dollars a year in wages leave Texas for Mexico. They live very well there for 10 dollars an hour here (constuction wages of course, not bus boy wages). How does that save the economy money?
It is against the law not to treat someone, thats good. But when millions of people cant pay for their treatment, the rest of us do.

[quote=Goju - Joe;2310078]Exactly how many Euros and Canucks are “flocking” to the US?

Aside from people going to see certain specialists who are located in the US where do you get this “Flocking to the US.” BS from - oh wait probably your ass.[/quote]

I read about it all the time in discussions of health care. Waiting lists (we are talking about more than just colds here) for treatments and refusal of govts to pay for treatments past a certain age. British, Canadians, and the outstanding health care of Cuba are the primary complainers. I will pm you the next time I read about a Canadians complaints, which shouldnt take too long.

No silly statement, to contrast our bad system with the horrible systems others profess to be enlightened. Not NK, but other socialist systems that claim efficiency.

Now thats our pharma lobby connection to the govt. I recall I disapprove of the operating standards of the insurance industry pretty strongly. Price controls and collaboration and the such. Not free market.
Can I get cheap vicodin for my knee?

Thats my point right there! They will create a no win situation and drive competition off the cliff. Then they wont have to restrain themselves at all!

No those are the rinos (republicans in name only) that I speak of when I say “Fascist right”! Greedy bitches. That is part of the problem. Fraudulent bookkeeping and speculation along with stated income loans across the country led to the collapse.

Not so good

True. Are you saying that the govt. takeover will make it better?
Once again, research Michelle O’s work in Chicago health care.

Should be a crime, but that is part of the recouping process for those who cannot pay. Hmmm.

Agreed. The govt. in control is an horrible extreme however. How is social security doing? Medicare? That is our issue, they have not done very well in many aspects of their duties.

Reading comp. I never implied that health care would lead to nazi like disaster.
Only a disaster in the quality, quantity and availability of good medical care.
So you never heard the stupidest thing you have ever heard!

I might of, however, alluded to the fact that the takeover of MANY industries and heightened control over our daily lives is similar to how nazism was borne.
And I dont agree that fascism is right but govt.control over industry for govt. profit is fascist and right= fascist right. I should call it the out of control greedy right.

I am sorry, not chronological age, just emotional maturity.
I said it was foolish to believe that the govts. concern for your health is genuine, but never called you ignorant or idiotic. I will work on that next time…buttneck. Know everything uber prick blowhard.

With all due respect of course!

[quote=Nwp;2310202]I can agree to the all over the placeness. It doesnt discount the fact that our govt. is over reaching and is not benevolent in its concern for our healthcare

Obviously you have not picked up much in the way of understanding how the manipulations of the markets caused most of our financial woes. The Community reinvestment act for one. House loans for everyone, derivatives galore, primarily based on mortgage backed securities. Too bad mortgages werent as dependable as they thought. That was the foundation of the financial house of cards we built.

Sure OK, of course they (the conservatives) changed the Banking and investment laws to allow this to happen under the principal of not having government interfere and letting the market works its self out.

Yay Canada! You guys almost had it licked huh? Har har.

Reading Comp. Joe. I never said anything about “WHEN” anyone entered or the consequenses of our late entry. I wish we did enter sooner and werent isolationists then.
That does not discount the FACT (where the fuck did you get factually incorrect??) that if we did not enter, it would have gone the other way. England and Russia were on the ropes, and so were we initially, with multiple fronts that we could barely keep up with.
Is it arrogant to be proud of the sacrifice MILLIONS (1.5 approx.) of Americans made?
Is it arrogant to assert an accurate statement? Your ass would be goose stepping without the greatest generation. Not to discount the Allies at all, heres to us…but…
Here is some arrogance: The Americans turned the tide of the war and were the strongest presence that pushed back the nazis and the axis of evil.

It’s arrogant to bring it up in a discussion where it wasn’t being discussed to try and prove some sort of point.

Maybe arrogant is the wrong word. Douchy comes to mind

Part of the reason there is a market for cheap labor is that PAYROLL TAXES are cost prohibitive for many small businesses. Im not talking income taxes here.
Many small business cannot compete with larger, established businesses due to overwhelming regulation and taxation that is revenue building for the govt.
Nothing to do with the market itself!

Money the economy saves? How about jobs lost?
First of all “benefits” are not rights! They are offered to attract personell, and as a way to take care of your people- IF YOU HAVE THE MEANS.
There is simply too much competition in some industries and areas that wittle the margins down to nill. You want a cheap product? China has it-with no OSHA or child labor laws. It is more difficult here.

The Agro industry in the US which uses A LOT of the illegal immigrant force is controlled by large corporations who are heavily subsidized by the government.

The use of illegals isn’t because they can’t afford it but because the government allows it and it put billions in their pockets

No, America is the only welfare Mexico has. Our healthcare is overrun by immigrants and those who dont/cant work-and WE pay for it in the ridiculous prices insurance companies have to pay to compensate.

Raped? Sure, 60 to a 100 dollars a day is pitiful if you have to pay taxes and plan to stay here and make a life. Many do neither.
Contrast this with 10 dollars a week in Mexico IF YOU CAN FIND WORK!

You dont know many Mexicans Joe. They risk their lives to come here because they can feed their families from here. I admire them, I would do the same if I had to. I do not disparage them, it is business and the govt. who allow it by leaving the sugar on the table. I just said many recieve med care without paying.

but they do pay in the form of excessively cheap labor, that like just mentioned goes into the pockets of a lot businessmen.

I know many who wont work for their countrymen because they are hard on each other. They can usually depend on Americans to pay them, no matter how little.
Most would rather be raped here than starve there.

BTW… Billions of dollars a year in wages leave Texas for Mexico. They live very well there for 10 dollars an hour here (constuction wages of course, not bus boy wages). How does that save the economy money?
It is against the law not to treat someone, thats good. But when millions of people cant pay for their treatment, the rest of us do.

And again billions stay in Texas through the cheap labour.

I read about it all the time in discussions of health care. Waiting lists (we are talking about more than just colds here) for treatments and refusal of govts to pay for treatments past a certain age. British, Canadians, and the outstanding health care of Cuba are the primary complainers. I will pm you the next time I read about a Canadians complaints, which shouldnt take too long.

You read about them in biased reporting through things like fox news who pick and choose.

Canada population about 36,000,000

Amount of with health care 36,000,000

Amount of people who use their health care about6 36,000,000

So lets say there 10,000 horror stories a year of waits and stuff.

10,000 / 36,000,000 X 100 = 0.02% of the population has issues.

US 300,000,000 rough 56,000,000 with out health care = 18% of your population who by default has horror stories about their health care experience.

And that doesn’t include people with health care plans whose HMO’s give them nightmares or who go broke fighting catastrophic illness.

So 0.02% of the population with issues VS 18%.

Also lumping Cuba, Canada’s and North Koreas systems together is ridiculous for so many obvious reason do you really need me to point them out?

No silly statement, to contrast our bad system with the horrible systems others profess to be enlightened. Not NK, but other socialist systems that claim efficiency.

Which systems? The ones that provide their citizens with higher life expectancies?

Again you’re understanding of these systems come from biased sources that you are seeking out to support your existing bias.

Now thats our pharma lobby connection to the govt. I recall I disapprove of the operating standards of the insurance industry pretty strongly. Price controls and collaboration and the such. Not free market.
Can I get cheap vicodin for my knee?

The point is that conservatives Like Ann the idiot Colter say that government should NOT regulate pharmaceutical prices and that the free market will take care of that regardless of ALL evidence to the contrary.

Sometimes the government has to step in when you have a few monopolistic companies like the pharma industry.

Thats my point right there! They will create a no win situation and drive competition off the cliff. Then they wont have to restrain themselves at all!

True. Are you saying that the govt. takeover will make it better?
Once again, research Michelle O’s work in Chicago health care.

All that means is Michelle Obama shouldn’t be in charge of health care.

Reading comp. I never implied that health care would lead to nazi like disaster.
Only a disaster in the quality, quantity and availability of good medical care.
So you never heard the stupidest thing you have ever heard!

I am not saying you said that, but that’s been the mantra of the Rush Limbaugh / Emo Beck conservatives.

I might of, however, alluded to the fact that the takeover of MANY industries and heightened control over our daily lives is similar to how nazism was borne.
And I dont agree that fascism is right but govt.control over industry for govt. profit is fascist and right= fascist right. I should call it the out of control greedy right.

Maybe so but health care should be as much of an industry as education, armed forces and other essential aspects to people lives.

The idea that the Obama plan is a total government take over of health care by the way is again a fabrication of the conservative right, however Obama has done a shitty job explaining it.

FYI Canada controls what doctors can charge for basic services but not elective service, nor does it control who you go to or what medication.

Canadian companies have private heal insurance that covers extras and the clinics, doctor offices, Xray unists and so on and so forth are privatly owned.

All the Canadian health care system does is regulate what can be charged and pays for it.

Again most people who criticizes it have no clue besides what Fox news and others pick and choose.

Know everything

It’s true I do! we can agree on that.