Mcdojo or bullshido?

Reviews, Videos, and Everything Else Trollshido
1

I live in Buffalo, NY. A couple years back after leaving my former school Western New York Karate Center, I took a little hiatus from martial arts. After a couple months I was ready to do it again. Then I started to look around for schools, and eventually I came across a school named The Training Edge. It was run by a Mr. and Mrs. Spoth they informed me that they taught XMA,Karate,kickboxing and Krav Maga. At the time I thought XMA was cool but now I realize its nothing else but for show.

Format: Their place was nice its was set up like so, there were two big rooms for the classes, one small room for private classes. A very big lobby with a walk in store full of equipment. So their song and dance impressed me so I signed up. Now they inform me that I’ll be signing up for a one year contact but I can leave at anytime without paying them for the full year. It sounded fine to me. But the problems I had with the contact, I’ll tell you later in the story.

Belt System: It work like so, First Color: White,Yellow,Orange, Green, Blue, Purple,Brown,Brown-Red, Red, Red-Black, then black. Second Testing:belt testing happen every 3 months and each month you’d get tested for one of three stripes that they give you to put on your belt. After getting all three stripes then your ready for your next belt testing. Next Uniforms: every month they hand out student of the month awards to put on your uniforms. Then there were stars patches and red, white, and blue stripes awarded to the good students. I don’t know how that worked because that was before my time there.

Teachers: First I’ll tell you who teaches what, then I’ll you what background I know of them. Now a Mr. Spoth and Mr. Berger teach all the classes together. But if something happen, then one would fill in for the other. There is a third teacher but I’ll get to him later. And on occasion the other black belts would teach classes. Now I’m gonna bio these teachers in mini-paragraphs.

Mr. Spoth: He claims to have a 3rd degree black belt in both karate and krav maga, and to have over 35 years of martial art training. Also says that he trained with grand masters over in China and in Israeli for five years.

Mr Berger: Now all I know about him is that he is a second dergee black belt in karate, and he’s not in very good shape, he can’t do very simple jump kicks.

Classes: First let’s start with classes there are Little Dragons class with kids 5 to 10 Belts: I don’t how the kids belt system works. Next regular karate class kids, age 10 to 14, belts green to purple. Next Advanced karate and XMA class teens age: 10 to 18, belts: brown to red black. Next: Beginner Black belt karate and XMA class teens 18 to 25. Finally Adult karate class age: 18 to 60 belts: all colors. Now I didn’t do Krav Maga or kickboxing classes so I don’t know how they work.

Crazy shit part: Now here comes the fun part. Now you are probably thinking “hey this place dosen’t sound so bad” Well prepare to have your martial art mind blown. These are some of the funny things that happen that makes this place a disgrace to real dojos. I’m gonna start slow just like Tina Turner then I’m gonna make your head spin. I’m going to do this in list form.

1. during kid’s class Mr. spoth would take a about 5 to 10 minute break to tell life lessons and storys to the kids so they can be a better person. Thats nice and all but it took a big chunk out of their class time just to talk.

2. They only held Tournaments in their school. This is my favorite memory of these “Tournaments”.
Now there was this family that used to be my neighbors in this apartment complex I used to live in.This family were the Ventras and their daugter Amanda,12 at the time went to this school. She always used to brag about her belt rank,and her dad to everybody she could, she would never stop. Now one sparring tournament that was held at the school. while I was waiting for the older devison to start, her’s were just being spit up into older and yonger teams. Now she was a red-black belt and only teens had those belts. Now instead of being with group of teens that have that belt she loves to brag about. Mr. Spoth sended her over to the age 5-10 kids side! She went on to beat the kids half her size and win first place! And also went on to brag about it!

3.This place was a belt factory, kids and even adults were “earning” their belts left and right. During these tests, everybody had sloppy stances, form, strikes,etc I could go on forever

4. The fourth and final one. This is the worst one yet. Now back to the Ventras, Amanda’s father Jim was good friend’s with the Spoths. And while I was there,Mr. Jim Ventra with no martial art or any kind of a fighting sport background was awarded a gray belt by the teachers at the school. Then by the time I left this school he tested for his black belt and he was awarded it!

Conclusion: after I finally realize its time to go, I left but not without them trying to charge me for the full year even though they said I could leave anytime with no strings attached. I told them that if they didn’t stop charging me more than I owe, I’ll take them to small claims court.Then they stopped and never were heard from again.

Now I hope that I’d obeyed the rules of this forum, also I have written this 2 other times but they got moved to other forums, I did not write them out carefully but what can you expect I’m a noob. Now if you do move this to another forum, I will respect it, and I promise you that I won’t whine about doing my best to make the thread fit the standards as much as possible because losers always whine about their best.:eusa_snoo

Thanks for listening. Any questions you have, I’ll be glad to answer.:jerk:

2

Nothing you wrote is really indicative of actual Bullshido. McDojo? Absolutely without a doubt, and from the sounds of it a classic of the genre. But unless you have evidence that the ranks they claim are fraudulent, then it’s not Bullshido and probably doesn’t belong on this particular sub-forum. Claiming a 3rd dan in Krav is a bit weird, and perhaps worthy of follow-up, but claiming a 3rd dan in Karate is VERY tame by McDojo standards, let along Bullshido.

To me it sounds like a typical McDojo running classes in ways designed to generate income rather than martial artists. Criticism is bad for student retention, so sloppiness is de rigeur. Fighting tournaments only within the system is also typical, because otherwise the students might realize how badly they suck. And the biggest clue is the constant belt testing. I bet nobody ever failed a belt test, and it’s likely all the belt tests cost extra. But none of this BS is actually fraudulent. It’s just shitty if your goal is to turn out competent martial artists. Obviously that’s not their goal. Caveat Emptor.

3

Krav Maga doesn’t use the Japanese ranking system. Therefore a 3rd Degree Black Belt in Krav Maga cannot be a true statement.

4

[quote=kenso;2281759]Nothing you wrote is really indicative of actual Bullshido. McDojo? Absolutely without a doubt, and from the sounds of it a classic of the genre. But unless you have evidence that the ranks they claim are fraudulent, then it’s not Bullshido and probably doesn’t belong on this particular sub-forum. Claiming a 3rd dan in Krav is a bit weird, and perhaps worthy of follow-up, but claiming a 3rd dan in Karate is VERY tame by McDojo standards, let along Bullshido.

To me it sounds like a typical McDojo running classes in ways designed to generate income rather than martial artists. Criticism is bad for student retention, so sloppiness is de rigeur. Fighting tournaments only within the system is also typical, because otherwise the students might realize how badly they suck. And the biggest clue is the constant belt testing. I bet nobody ever failed a belt test, and it’s likely all the belt tests cost extra. But none of this BS is actually fraudulent. It’s just shitty if your goal is to turn out competent martial artists. Obviously that’s not their goal. Caveat Emptor.[/quote]

Mr. Kenso I’m good thanks for asking. Anyway besides going to the school and meeting them for yourself. They don’t exist, only on their website and in person. I don’t have anymore info then other but my personal time there. I’m sorry but I can’t get anymore because the last time I was there, I told him to take his school and shove it up his ass. :englishmoAnd my only wish is for respectable martial artists in buffalo not to go there. And to tell other people about them. Finally to show them as who they are: frauds.

5

Fraud? On the basis of claiming a third-degree black belt in Krav Maga? I’m not sure that’s enough.

6

Let me get this straight all that info I just type, doesn’t give you a feeling that their frauds?:new_shock Because if that’s the truth then I’m freak out man.:hijackp:

7

It’s not just a school that’s open by well taught teachers that have Mcdojos intentions. They shouldn’t be teaching anything to anyone.

8

For it to be “Bullshido” you would have to show that they don’t have their claimed ranks through legitimate means or are teaching something which they are not actually qualified to teach.
They are definitely a belt mill/mcdojo based on your description, but unless you have some evidence that they are lying about their qualifications (and no, your opinion does not count as evidence) then they are not bullshido. They are just a shitty mcdojo teaching shitty karate and XMA.

9

It’s not about “a feeling”, it’s about fact. Fraud is a serious accusation, and you haven’t backed it up. This is why your posts about this school keep getting flushed.

10

Damn it CWA2 do this again and I’m going to get your access to MABS removed.

Go start your own website and you can cry fraud to your heartS CONTENT.

11

I feel your pain i’ve seen similiar stuff myself. If you want to “save” others just write a review of the school.

12

There you go.

Also, do not use the word fraud without proof.

13

I knew this was gonna happen so I’m going to keep to my word and not whine about it

14

Well because my thread got moved to YMAS, it is now a review of the school isn’t?:englishmo

15

[quote=It is Fake;2281891]Damn it CWA2 do this again and I’m going to get your access to MABS removed.

Go start your own website and you can cry fraud to your heartS CONTENT.[/quote]

I’m sorry Is it Fake did I offend you, your majesty. You must forgive us dumb white folk:englishmo

16

Thanks for posting it anyway.

17

YMAS is the “random stuff” forum. MABS is the investigation forum. For reviews, scroll up to the top of the page and click on the “reviews” link. Read the stickies and a couple of the reviews before posting to ensure that your review has the necessary information in it. You might want to wait a while before writing it though. Sounds like you’re still pretty sore.

Good luck.

18

Just checked out their website and yeah, would you like fries with your blackbelt? The slogan, “Our training methods must work, they’ve been around for 2,000 years!” really caught my eye. Oh, and they have a “Little Dragons” program too. That’s…cute. Not enough info to say yea or nay about fraud though. Actually not enough info generally. While suspicious, they still deserve the benefit of the doubt.

19

HEY! None of that! Your heart is in the right place, you just need to go about this properly thats all. I came from BBT. The quality control is off the charts bad. You complained about some girls dad getting an honorary BB in that system of krotty. Well imagine that girls dad now going out and teaching, that is BBT.

Alot of us feel your pain, and don’t wish that on anyone. In fact I was temporarily banned from other forums cause I was too harsh on Karate and BBT, my original back ground.

There is a right way and wrong way to do things here. Just like there is a right way and wrong way to run a club, and teach an art. Anyway I hope that hearing that others have been burned like you gives you some comfort and the strength to move on.

My only complaint about your post is this. You used the first and last name of a student (whom I assume was a lot younger than you). Names should only be used for instructors and school names. You don’t need to used the real names of fellow students of the club who are getting screwed as hard as you did.

20

[quote=CharlieWoopAss2;2281945]Dude that was good high-five. I’ve got to know which Hannah Montnna episode you got those one liners from. But what I totally agree with you on is I would pay anything to see what everybody looks like in real life.:hitit:

P.S I need you to know that I’m not defending that son a of bitch, is it fake[/quote]

You broke your promise. This is whining and in multiple threads.

As you were told the first time, go read other investigative threads and learn how to write up a MABS worthy thread. Until you do, all your threads will be moved.

A school review, which we have a section for, is what you just typed. There you can rate the school and every thing.

Also, learn about calling someone a fraud. Don’t do it without proof and documents to back up your assertions.

Do you need the horror stories as to why?