When taken in isolation and applied on an aware opponent, these techniques usually fail. If you were to yank him in one direction, then strike/grab the throat and take them down, I doubt it would be comfortable. It’s like Harry Houdini. He claimed to be able to withstand body punches and one day someone randomly punched him and he died. He wasn’t ready for it. Or you aren’t applying it right or are too weak. Usually fingertip press-ups and other training methods compliment these sort of techniques.
[QUOTE=MaartenSFS;2798934]It’s like Harry Houdini. He claimed to be able to withstand body punches and one day someone randomly punched him and he died. He wasn’t ready for it.[/QUOTE]Nope, it wasn’t a surprise nor random.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/houdini.asp
As to the technique, pressure points are almost always secondary contrary to how they are portrayed. See VM post as to why.
[QUOTE=It is Fake;2798936]Nope, it wasn’t a surprise nor random.
http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/houdini.asp
As to the technique, pressure points are almost always secondary contrary to how they are portrayed. See VM post as to why.[/QUOTE]
O, well I heard that somewhere, but thanks for clearing it up. My point still stands, though. They are designed to amplify the damage. My teacher was showing him (rather uncomfortable for me) that there are always three points twisting in Qinna. One is this shearing motion where your own arm or whatever (like the bones in your forearm or elbow) and twisting into their arm, which is also being twisted. The effect is rather like kicking downwards onto someone’s shin. OUCH. You are also breaking their arm and throwing them at the same time, though.
[QUOTE=Omega Supreme;2798949]Oh, yeah I’ve used this one.[/QUOTE]
I’ve had something like that used on me. Does that count? =P I proceeded to jab my thumb in the area between the ear and jaw bone, which can be effective, moments later but he was expecting retaliation. He still said it was cool, though.
Pressure point and Qinna attacks are never done with continuous pressure, except during training. It’s one of my annoyances with MMA (a lot of them claim that standing grappling and pressure points don’t work) . These techniques can be found in every martial art around the world, even in ancient European fencing manuals, and are very effective.
Someone attacked you, you got hold of the weapon hand or fingers or whatever and you broke it, threw them, and used their own knife or yours to stab them to death. It’s impossible to use them on a resisting opponent safely, assuming they are of equal skill.
I can grab my teacher in all sorts of ways and he can get out easily by relaxing his muscles/joints (and because I suck in comparison). He does fingertip and wrist press-ups and all sorts of weird pull-ups with his fingers and lifting pottery filled with sand with his fingers and other stuff I haven’t really seen.
The point is, the stuff works, but can only be trained to a point. Try light sparring where everything goes. It really opened my eyes.
My point still stands, though. They are designed to amplify the damage.
No, that is not their only design.
[QUOTE=MaartenSFS;2798957]Pressure point and Qinna attacks are never done with continuous pressure, except during training. [/quote] This is completely untrue.
It’s one of my annoyances with MMA (a lot of them claim that standing grappling and pressure points don’t work) . These techniques can be found in every martial art around the world, even in ancient European fencing manuals, and are very effective.
Yes, because most people espouse the worth the way you just did with a ton of misinformation. So when charlatans talk about lifting the toe and meridians they are 100% right. If they learned the correct use, which people rarely bother to explain, there would be no issue.
Try light sparring where everything goes. It really opened my eyes.
No, this is what fosters the BS. This is why I asked what level of sparring the OP had when he attempted the technique. Oh and the one used in the video is continuous pressure. There are others that also use continuous pressure.
[QUOTE=It is Fake;2798958]This is completely untrue.[/QUOTE] In what way?
[QUOTE=It is Fake;2798958]Yes, because most people espouse the worth the way you just did with a ton of misinformation…[/QUOTE] No misinformation there. Zero. Tools in an arsenal.
[QUOTE=It is Fake;2798958]No, this is what fosters the BS.[/QUOTE] So it’s okay to break someone’s wrist and dislocate their shoulder in sparring? Sorry, you must do things differently where you train. The error is mine.
[QUOTE=DMC;2798962]As for the people who said they applied it successfully - thanks for contributing. Is there a particular trick to it or do you just push as hard as you can into his throat? What reaction did you get - a full takedown, or just a “flinch”?[/QUOTE]
In sparring you need to use these techniques in a restrained manner. Striking hard into the throat is very dangerous and could result in permanent damage. If you both know what it means then your sparring partner will realise the potential damage you could have dealt him and better defend next time.
[QUOTE=DMC;2798961]I tried the technique both in grappling sparring (I guess you can call that light sparring, if hard sparring = striking) in a clinch and later by just having him stand up and trying to take him down with it. In both cases he just coughed a bit.[/QUOTE]
Next time try it during sparring with the element of surprise on your side.
In Taiji a lot of the “combinations” are designed to get the air out of your opponent’s lungs with one hit or unbalancing move and then strike out. A little gasp of surprise or somesuch, followed by a quick, forceful strike to the torso, like a shoulder strike, can easily knock the wind out of someone.
An unexpected throat grab or strike should have a similar result, if done right. O, and when I said light sparring I meant bare knuckle with light contact to vital places like the face, groin, throat, etc. Leg kicks and body shots can be harder, obviously, and it would probably be a better idea not to break their elbow joint if you want to continue training with them. I suggest trying this in addition to normal full-contact sparring with protective equipment.
[QUOTE=MaartenSFS;2798965]
No misinformation there. Zero. Tools in an arsenal.[/quote] You posted two erroneous statements. That’s what causes people to believe pressure points are fake. There was nothing unclear about what I stated Falsehoods are not “tools in an arsenal.”
So it’s okay to break someone’s wrist and dislocate their shoulder in sparring? Sorry, you must do things differently where you train. The error is mine.
Show me where I said this anywhere in these posts. Don’t twist my words because you can’t comprehend what I stated. Now, if we are going the passive aggressive insult training route let me know. I’m not going to let you turn this into one of your typical tantrums.
[QUOTE=It is Fake;2798972]You posted two erroneous statements. That’s what causes people to believe pressure points are fake. There was nothing unclear about what I stated Falsehoods are not “tools in an arsenal.”
Show me where I said this anywhere in these posts. Don’t twist my words because you can’t comprehend what I stated. Now, if we are going the passive aggressive insult training route let me know. I’m not going to let you turn this into one of your typical tantrums.[/QUOTE]
What falsehood besides Houdini?
Pressure points and Qinna are meant to disable the enemy. It’s either training or maiming. Black and white. No continuous holding, etc. grabbing a pressure point to force compliance through pain whilst breaking a joint or taking them down is transitional. Striking them or applying pressure through leverage or other methods is usually more effective. We don’t need to jump off of a cliff to prove the effectiveness of gravity.
Although you missed the point of my posts, I have faith that others will comprehend the words that I have written therein.
[QUOTE=MaartenSFS;2798977]Although you missed the point of my posts, I have faith that others will comprehend the words that I have written therein.[/QUOTE]
Were we on YMAS, my reply to this would be simply: “Oh, fuck off.” Since we’re not, I’ll explain that this is a completely meaningless post which does not advance the discussion in any way and which has no relevance to anything being discussed in this thread.
I’d also like to point out that you posted this 11 minutes before your last edit to the previous post, which means you could have made it part of that post if you’d wanted to, which in turn means that you believed this single sentence was so important that it merited its own separate post. And my only response to that is as follows: LOL.
[QUOTE=MaartenSFS;2798976]
Pressure points and Qinna are meant to disable the enemy. It’s either training or maiming. Black and white.[/quote]Falsehood. If you do not now how to apply them without maiming you are doing it wrong.
No continuous holding, etc. grabbing a pressure point to force compliance through pain whilst breaking a joint or taking them down is transitional.
Another Falsehood.
Striking them or applying pressure through leverage or other methods is usually more effective.
Oh look semantics applying pressure means it is continuous. I do like how you threw “leverage” in there in an attempt to be “different.”
[QUOTE=MaartenSFS;2798977]Although you missed the point of my posts, I have faith that others will comprehend the words that I have written therein.[/QUOTE]
Comprhend that you do not know what the fuck you are talking about? You have a cop and a professional fighter saying theY used a CONTINUOUS PRESSURE technique and you called it transitional? GTFO. That’s why your ass is once again in trollshido.
Watch the end of the video, this is a pressure point I learned to use.
Notice, it was continuous, it did not maim and the pain induced caused the gentleman to comply.
There are at least four others, that are continuous, that immediately come to mind.
All I have to say is DAMN there are TON of negative police videos on youtube. I’m not wading through anymore to prove my point.
Now, this is the last derail post on this point. Take it to your trollshido thread or stick to the topic at hand.
[QUOTE=MaartenSFS;2798977]Although you missed the point of my posts, I have faith that others will comprehend the words that I have written therein.[/QUOTE]
I read some of the posts you made in the throat clutch takedown thread. Maybe you do better with your sifu, but on the internet you still don’t grasp the point, “Shut up and listen”.
Also,
[QUOTE=MaartenSFS;2762325]My people? Dutch? Caucasian? I can’t say that I’m an expert in the field of penisses, but I had a French friend that was addicted to Japanese porn (which was actually really annoying with high-pitched squealing) and they had tiny little willies! It stands to reason that the taller someone is the larger their penis will be, but I’m sure that there are exceptions. When you say “minds” you really just mean yourself, don’t you?[/QUOTE]
this is an incredibly bigoted and juvenile statement.
[QUOTE=It is Fake;2799002]Falsehood. If you do not now how to apply them without maiming you are doing it wrong.
Another Falsehood.
Oh look semantics applying pressure means it is continuous. I do like how you threw “leverage” in there in an attempt to be “different.”[/QUOTE]
Not continuous, but transitional. Again you fail to grasp what I am saying. I was speaking to my above post about twisting/shearing, et al. I really don’t think that you know what you are talking about or you only work with “wimps”. These techniques weren’t designed to hold suspects whilst trying to handcuff them. Anyone worth their salt can easily ignore or get out of such a hold. It is exactly the kind of BS that you are spouting that causes people to doubt their effectiveness. As you are only interested in your ego, though, I’ll let the other readers figure it out for themselves.
O, and applying them without maiming is called training… “I could just elbow you in the face!” “Sure, but I just broke your other elbow joint.” That’s what people don’t get. Short of actually going through with it, how do you convince these fools? Flowing into the next one until the pain sets them free!
[QUOTE=MaartenSFS;2799046]Again you fail to grasp what I am saying. [/QUOTE]
it’s always us, right maarten? no on understands your real point and it’s our fault that you come off like a pretentious douchenozzle.
or maybe you’re a just a pretentious douchenozzle. yeah i’m pretty sure that’s it.
[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2799063]it’s always us, right maarten? no on understands your real point and it’s our fault that you come off like a pretentious douchenozzle.
or maybe you’re a just a pretentious douchenozzle. yeah i’m pretty sure that’s it.[/QUOTE]
Two people is not all people. This discussion has nothing to do with any other thread that I have contributed with. Try actually reading, if you are able to. As usual, when you have nothing constructive to say you resort to name-calling. Also, you weren’t in this discussion. Pathetic. I’m glad you have each other’s backs, though. Must be nice. Anyways, I’ve already said everything I wanted to say, so I won’t further damage this thread that you [two] derailed.