Law Expands Right to Kill in Self-Defense

[Mr_Mantis]

You can do what ever you want, but we’re talking your options in Florida.

[Judah_Maccabee]

I can’t outrun bullets.

[Thaiboxerken]

5 year olds have bad aim.

[Judah_Maccabee]

I’ve seen some of them little bastards playing Time Crisis 3. They do better than I do!

More seriously, I think the new laws are a step in the right direction.

[Mr_Mantis]

@Thaiboxerken

5 year olds have bad aim.

They might have beginner’s luck.

[punchingdummy]

@qwerty123

I’ve never fired a hand gun but how hard could it be to cap a guy in the legs at 10-15 feet distance especially if you have a full clip?

“trained” doesn’t usually mean empying a full magazine. But to answer your question, it is more difficult than most people thisnk (when under stress).

[punchingdummy]

@garbanzo

I find it outrageous the people are required to retreat.

…and you call yourself a liberal!!!

[punchingdummy]

@Osiris

If you blast someone, you SHOULD be put on trial unless there’s definitive proof tht things happened exactly as you claim.

Law enforcement SOP is basically to treat all deaths as a homicide until they have reasonable grounds to believe otherwise. So anyone who kills in self defense will be scrutinized as a potential criminal…and the shooter better hope the evidence supports his or her perceptions of that event. Just because someone kills in self defense does not mean the will not be prosecuted.

[punchingdummy]

@Thaiboxerken

Not unreasonable, but rather stupid I think. It should be easier to defeat a person if you aren’t worried about their well being.

It all depends on the persons knowledge, skills and experience. For the untrained, or minimally trained, guy on the street your statement is correct. For the professional or “expert”, not as true. They will be expected to demonstrate more restraint if they had other reasonable, less than lethal, means at their disposal.

[qwerty123]

@wydren

They say that because you can’t rely on it, you shouldn’t even train for it. (Of course, they’ve also said things like “If someone breaks into my house, I’ll shoot first and ask questions later”, so take that how you will. I’d hate to be their kid asking for a glass of water.)

yeah, maybe they’re just looking for an excuse to blow someone away.

i’ve never fired a hand gun, but with a rifle i had no trouble hitting a target the size of a leg from like 60 feet away ( i play lots of paintball that could have helped ). so i think from 10 feet away the legs should be too much trouble.

not allowed carrying a gun here so that doesn’t really matter.

They might have beginner’s luck.

you’d seriously shoot a five years old coming at you with a gun?

but what i’m worried about is that people will purposedly escalate a situation to shoot somebody that they want to kill.

exemple; a guys hates these three guys. he purposely pisses them off. they come at him to give him a good ass whooping. multiple opponents is considered lethal force right? he pulls out a gun and caps them. no witnesses to object to his story he comes out clean.

[punchingdummy]

@qwerty123

i’ve never fired a hand gun, but with a rifle i had no trouble hitting a target the size of a leg from like 60 feet away ( i play lots of paintball that could have helped ). so i think from 10 feet away the legs should be too much trouble.

You’re kidding yourself.

Do not compare your performance with a rifle under recreational conditions with what it would be if (a) that leg was moving as it was part of a larger being attacking you, and (b) the stress factor that happens in tight situations.

I’m not saying that you can’t hit a leg in such a situation. I’m just saying that you should understand it might be tougher than you think. In other words, don’t bet your life on it unless your are REALLY prepared to do so.

[Wounded_Ronin]

Exactly. If you’ve done recreational riflery, you’ll know the important role that breath can play in the accuracy of your shot.

Now imagine if someone were trying to kill you. Do you think your breathing, let alone the rest of your body, would be perfectly tranquil so that you could pull off that really precise shot?

Furthermore, the moving target thing is another big issue. If someone is sprinting or otherwise moving rapidly they are much harder to hit than a still target would be.

[jawdy]

Some of you, earlier on in the posts, stated about not being able to shoot a burglar in your own home in England. Well, the first thing is that Hand guns are illegal in the UK, and rifles and shotguns need some awkward to get licenses.
Going away from guns though, the Chief Constable of the Met. Police publically stated that you can attack (and even kill, if it got too dangerous for you) a burglar in your own home. Where as before we weren’t even allowed to hit them, and now we can pound them until the cows come home.

On this Florida thing, thats a bit scary. Both times ive been to the USA, ive been in Florida. Ok, so i was only in the tourist areas, but as (obviously) the law is the same for the whole state, its a bit scary as a tourist.

[qwerty123]

@punchingdummy

You’re kidding yourself.

Do not compare your performance with a rifle under recreational conditions with what it would be if (a) that leg was moving as it was part of a larger being attacking you, and (b) the stress factor that happens in tight situations.

yeah but on the other hand, my target is only 10-15 feet away, and im basically just unloading on his legs.

thinking about it you are probably right it’s probably harder than i think. anyway that situation is a bit of a non issue for me because i live in canada and im not allowed to own a hand gun.

but if he’s coming at you and you want to shoot his legs, that means he has a melee weapon. just pull out the gun and threaten him. if that doesnt do it, shoot him, he qualifies for removal from the gene pool. :icon_tong

[FighterJones]

Oh yes Qwerty, because you have lit someone up with something like a DM4 with ramp board and an empire reloader b and a nice nitro system(BTW, in good paintball guns you should have no trouble hitting 10-20-25 balls per second), that means you can shoot a real gun just great! YEAH!!

[punchingdummy]

@qwerty123

yeah but on the other hand, my target is only 10-15 feet away, and im basically just unloading on his legs.

thinking about it you are probably right it’s probably harder than i think. anyway that situation is a bit of a non issue for me because i live in canada and im not allowed to own a hand gun.

but if he’s coming at you and you want to shoot his legs, that means he has a melee weapon. just pull out the gun and threaten him. if that doesnt do it, shoot him, he qualifies for removal from the gene pool. :icon_tong

Two words: CENTER MASS

[Wounded_Ronin]

Think about it this way. Who has more combat training, qwerty? You, or an FBI agent? The FBI agent, right?

Okay…and the FBI is a law enforcement agency, rather than a military agency, so their priority should be apprehension first and death second, right?

But, does the FBI tell agents to aim for the legs or pelvis in order to try for a nonlethal takedown? No. The FBI tells agents to always double tap to the center of mass, and that they should expect that they might need to shoot up to 9 times or something.

If the FBI can’t reliably shoot out the legs in a combat situation, why do you think you can?

[Mr_Mantis]

@Wounded Ronin

. The FBI tells agents to always double tap to the center of mass, and that they should expect that they might need to shoot up to 9 times or something.

I just wanted to add, I reccommend that all practice the 2 shot succession or double tap at the range.

Thanks for mentioning that WR!

[punchingdummy]

I believe FLETC teaches dble tap plus one. Perhaps Bushi51 or some of our other qualified members can confirm.

[Pandinha]

@indestructible

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050405/od_nm/crime_florida_dc&e=2&ncid=757

[me] Pandora’s Box or About Damn Time? Personally, I like this idea. If someone attacks you, why should you have to run? [/me]

Law Expands Right to Kill in Self-Defense

By Michael Peltier

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - People in Florida will be allowed to kill in self-defense on the street without trying to flee under a new law passed by state politicians on Tuesday that critics say will bring a Wild West mentality and innocent deaths.

The Florida House of Representatives, citing the need to allow people to “stand their ground,” voted 94-20 to codify and expand court rulings that already allow people to use deadly force to protect themselves in their homes without first trying to escape.

The new bill goes further by allowing citizens to use deadly force in a public place if they have a reasonable belief they are in danger of death or great bodily harm. It applies to all means of force that may result in death, although the legislative debate focused on guns.

The “Stand Your Ground” bill passed the Senate last week on a 39-0 vote and now goes to Republican Gov. Jeb Bush, who indicated he will sign it.

“This is about meeting force with force,” said House sponsor Republican state Rep. Dennis Baxley of Ocala. “If I’m attacked, I should not have to retreat.”

Critics have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves from intruders in their homes but said the provision making it easier to use deadly force in public gives gun owners a license to kill.

“For a House that talks about the culture of life it’s ironic that we would be devaluing life in this bill,” said Democratic state Rep. Dan Gelber of Miami Beach. “That’s exactly what we’re doing.”

Like many states, Florida courts have ruled that people have a right to defend themselves in their homes. Florida courts have expanded that “Castle Doctrine” to include employees in their workplaces and drivers who are attacked in their automobiles.

Outside the home, however, courts have ruled that most victims must at least attempt to escape before using deadly force, a provision gun advocates say puts victims at greater risk. The proposal removes that requirement if a person has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.

Critics say the measure could lead to racially motivated killings and promote deadly escalations of arguments.

“All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral,” said Democratic state Rep. Irv Slosberg of Boca Raton.

I bought a new Glock 30 to celebrate this landmark event.