[QUOTE=Permalost;2825720]This is the most common injury I’ve seen in moving step push hands (but the feet are both planted on the ground, unlike o soto). An overenthusiastic player places their leg behind their opponents and tries to force them down without concern for knee alignment and the knee is wrenched inward as they are spiraled down.[/QUOTE]
Yes, aka the “white belt osoto gari facsmile” throw.
Stolen from goodlun in another thread. Jeff Glover shows a Competition legal version of Kani Basami:
[QUOTE=Plasma;2825747]Stolen from goodlun in another thread. Jeff Glover shows a Competition legal version of Kani Basami:
[/QUOTE]
that was impressive… though seems like it’d be hard to pull off if uke knows what they’re doing
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[QUOTE=Plasma;2825747]Stolen from goodlun in another thread. Jeff Glover shows a Competition legal version of Kani Basami:
[/QUOTE]
not legal for judo though, because he grabs the leg, unless you’re arguing that they have entered newaza at that point. i would be convinced by that argument, but i think the referees would not.
[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2825771] unless you’re arguing that they have entered newaza at that point. i would be convinced by that argument, but i think the referees would not.[/QUOTE]
I know you’re mostly taking the piss, but I did ask a while ago at a reffing mini-seminar what the deal was, and the senior guy told me they were going to work off of the idea that both parties need to at least have a knee on the ground before it’s ne-wazza time.
Yeah, NFW for judo, DQ.
Oh, and one thing I meant to ask OP: kani basami (as far as i know) is usually applied as a follow up to a failed harai goshi, or ashi guruma. Now, I know you’re not doing judo, but the judo way of doing things is that you go for your first throw like it’s a real thing, and don’t try and fake shit. You try and fake shit, and your opponent will see it coming a mile away. The first attack has to present your opponent with a real danger - something he has no choice but to react to. How is your harai ggoshi? (I won’t even ask about ashi guruma, because hardly anyone does that well.)
[QUOTE=CrackFox;2825796]Oh, and one thing I meant to ask OP: kani basami (as far as i know) is usually applied as a follow up to a failed harai goshi, or ashi guruma. Now, I know you’re not doing judo, but the judo way of doing things is that you go for your first throw like it’s a real thing, and don’t try and fake shit. You try and fake shit, and your opponent will see it coming a mile away. The first attack has to present your opponent with a real danger - something he has no choice but to react to. How is your harai ggoshi? (I won’t even ask about ashi guruma, because hardly anyone does that well.)[/QUOTE]
the times I’ve applied it with a resisting opponent have been some from failed harai goshi, some from people lunging through on punches after I feint (sabaki to the side transitions well… though I don’t know how well this will make sense, because it’s striking in a judo thread), and lastly a few from a side kick where my partner stepped so my kicking leg was across his front, which were really surprising but it worked at the time
anyway, as to how my harai goshi is… I can sometimes pull it off with resistance, but I really can’t get the leg drive where I feel it should be
this makes it feel to me like a mix between the harai and an o goshi (sorry if I get any terminology wrong, please correct me if possible)
the strange thing is with the osoto gari my leg drive is relatively good.
[QUOTE=NeilG;2825790]Yeah, NFW for judo, DQ.[/QUOTE]
I only competed Judo once since they outlawed leg grabs and that was in 2010. I was referring to BJJ as that’s what I been competing in since 2011.
[QUOTE=CrackFox;2825796]Oh, and one thing I meant to ask OP: kani basami (as far as i know) is usually applied as a follow up to a failed harai goshi, or ashi guruma. Now, I know you’re not doing judo, but the judo way of doing things is that you go for your first throw like it’s a real thing, and don’t try and fake shit. You try and fake shit, and your opponent will see it coming a mile away. The first attack has to present your opponent with a real danger - something he has no choice but to react to. How is your harai ggoshi? (I won’t even ask about ashi guruma, because hardly anyone does that well.)[/QUOTE]
haha my replies aren’t getting approved… seeing if adding one from pc helps
already wrote stuff out on my phone but here I’m just going to summarise to: my harai goshi is not too bad, but generally the sweep isn’t as big as I’d like it to be, though in an osoto gari or uchi mata i get more leg drive.
(as to the ashi guruma yeah mine is complete trash, tried it before and on occasion, but i’m no judoka for the time being, and will need a substantial amount of training to fix that throw)
[QUOTE=blackmonk;2825715]
Osoto gari w/ valgus pressure against the knee… [/QUOTE]
Is that what Kimura’s Osoto gari was? He did it sideways-ish it looks like, from videos of him on youtube. He reaps at an angle, towards uke’s other leg, and some of the comments said that this can mess up the knee.
[QUOTE=Mr.HoneyBadger;2826304]Is that what Kimura’s Osoto gari was? He did it sideways-ish it looks like, from videos of him on youtube. He reaps at an angle, towards uke’s other leg, and some of the comments said that this can mess up the knee.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, unmanaged valgus movement in the knee = ACL tears.
A lot of Russian sambo schools favor this sort of osoto, because it is a much more practical entry during sparring than the one traditionally taught in judo. Kurinnoy teaches knee taps as valgus pressure against the knee, also.
[QUOTE=blackmonk;2826308]Yeah, unmanaged valgus movement in the knee = ACL tears.
A lot of Russian sambo schools favor this sort of osoto, because it is a much more practical entry during sparring than the one traditionally taught in judo. Kurinnoy teaches knee taps as valgus pressure against the knee, also.[/QUOTE]
I’ve been told that if you want to go for the sideways osoto, you have to hook right beneath the knee, and not reap the knee like in a normal osoto. Or block the ankle. Or sweep the thigh.
BKR would know better than me, but I don’t think it has to do with the point of contact as much as your kuzushi in that direction.
Probably, regarding the kuzushi.
[QUOTE=blackmonk;2826312]BKR would know better than me, but I don’t think it has to do with the point of contact as much as your kuzushi in that direction.[/QUOTE]
the kuzushi would affect how the force hits their knee even if you sweep from directly behind, wouldn’t it?
[QUOTE=Mr.HoneyBadger;2826311]I’ve been told that if you want to go for the sideways osoto, you have to hook right beneath the knee, and not reap the knee like in a normal osoto. Or block the ankle. Or sweep the thigh.[/QUOTE]Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!!!
Sorry needed to vent.
[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2825771]not legal for judo though, because he grabs the leg, unless you’re arguing that they have entered newaza at that point. i would be convinced by that argument, but i think the referees would not.[/QUOTE]
That’s a quick mate’ more than likely if they get hung up at all.
Plus tori is likely to get crushed pretty badly when/if uke sprawls violently and/or drives tori into the tatami. He is in a very vulnerable position.
Also, it looks too much like Kani Basami, and if done quickly, no way would they be considered to be in ne waza.
So, if they get hung up, it’s mate’ or tori gets…severely driven into the ground.
If it’s done quickly and smoothly, as I’m sure Mr. Glover can do, it’s Hansokumake because he grabbed the leg, or, the refs decide it’s too close to Kani Basami for comfort and it’s just mate’ and or hansokumake.
Not something I’d do in an IJF rules judo tournament.
[QUOTE=soft touch;2826322]the kuzushi would affect how the force hits their knee even if you sweep from directly behind, wouldn’t it?[/QUOTE]
I suppose, but in my intermediate-ish understanding of judo, osoto has zero to do with reaping the knee. One of my training partners (and several time sambo world champ) throws it with an angular hip load. Her osoto is 70% kuzushi, 25% hip load, and 5% “reap”. And don’t get it twisted that she’s a female, this is a 215lb girl who benches upwards of 300 raw, and can straight beat a man’s ass.
[QUOTE=Omega Supreme;2826337]Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck!!!
Sorry needed to vent.[/QUOTE]
What did I get wrong