A news from odia Violence in Rio de Janeiro has claimed another victim on the 20th of June. The jiu-Jitsu instructor at the academy of Ipanema Fight, Bruno Inacio Nunes, aged 37, was recently killed in an attempted robbery that occurred on a bus. The powerful black belt tried to disarm the robber but was shot in the head and reported to be dead.
At the time, the bus was not very full of people, and when the single gunman came and started to take the belongings of his victims, Bruno thought that he would be able to disarm him and get away. He took his opportunity but was later shot in the head, right above his left eyebrow, killing him instantly.
The master, who has been involved as a victim of a robbery twice, is survived by his three children. In the interview, one of the onlookers described what had happened in frightening detail. They were all perplexed because none of them could understand what had happened. For his bravery, the entire community recognized his abilities and the legacy that he lets live on in his students. He was an honorable man who always tried to do the right thing, instilling a sense of pride and friendship in his students. His death was not in vain, and more people than ever are now interested in learning the martial art in order to continue on his legacy.
[QUOTE=baby_cart;2861278]Condolences to his family as well.
However, this has some wide implications on the promotion of BJJ as “good for self-defense.”[/QUOTE]
Nothing is really “good” for self defense when guns and knives are involved. I mean even if you also have a gun the odds aren’t that good. You can’t berimbolo a 9mm bullet.
[QUOTE=ghost55;2861279]Nothing is really “good” for self defense when guns and knives are involved. I mean even if you also have a gun the odds aren’t that good. You can’t berimbolo a 9mm bullet.[/QUOTE]
And that’s the thing. Why go unarmed against an armed criminal? If this report is to be believed:
[QUOTE=Tranquil Suit;2861281]He made a judgement in error of sneeking up and going for the rnc, instead of sneeking up and going for the gun first.[/QUOTE]
He made the mistake of going for anything. You’ve seen too many movies.
If you get mugged/robbed with a weapon your best chance at survival is to comply. Not try your BJJ skills out.
The fact that you think he should have gone for the gun at all says a lot about your general naivety.
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2861291]He made the mistake of going for anything. You’ve seen too many movies.
If you get mugged/robbed with a weapon your best chance at survival is to comply. Not try your BJJ skills out.
The fact that you think he should have gone for the gun at all says a lot about your general naivety.[/QUOTE]
What’s the point of practicing the self defence portion of GJJ/BJJ if you have no intention of using it if the situation arises, let alone take the time to become competent enough in the art to teach it to others?
[QUOTE=itwasntme;2861297]What’s the point of practicing the self defence portion of GJJ/BJJ if you have no intention of using it if the situation arises, let alone take the time to become competent enough in the art to teach it to others?[/QUOTE]
The point of training BJJ has nothing to do with defending yourself from guns, and this guy proved that. Trying to grapple someone who has a loaded firearm is begging to be shot to death.
Jiujitsu doesn’t work against guns any more than kung fu worked against bullets in the Boxer Rebellion.
Do you practice gun disarms in your BJJ class? I have a real problem with anyone teaching weapon disarms who doesn’t have significant operating experience, in the field, with those weapons. They are the types of instructors who will get their students killed. Even if their BJJ is great, they are stupid in the head and catering to martial arts movie fantasy, not real life.
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2861298]The point of training BJJ has nothing to do with defending yourself from guns, and this guy proved that. Trying to grapple someone who has a loaded firearm is begging to be shot to death.
Jiujitsu doesn’t work against guns any more than kung fu worked against bullets in the Boxer Rebellion.
Do you practice gun disarms in your BJJ class? I have a real problem with anyone teaching weapon disarms who doesn’t have significant operating experience, in the field, with those weapons. They are the types of instructors who will get their students killed. Even if their BJJ is great, they are stupid in the head and catering to martial arts movie fantasy, not real life.[/QUOTE]
I ask because the article I initially saw in my news feed stated GJJ. I thought that always included disarms as part of the curriculum.
[QUOTE=itwasntme;2861301]I ask because the article I initially saw in my news feed stated GJJ. I thought that always included disarms as part of the curriculum.[/QUOTE]
So then I have a question where the hell did gun disarms get added to GJJ, and by whom?
They’re not in judo, right? Helio Gracie didn’t teach them did he? If disarms were added to GJJ, who added them and how qualified were they, and how qualified have the people teaching them since been? This worries me…
It’s not that you CAN’T disarm someone who has a knife or gun, the issue is whether or not you’re being taught “how to” realistically, and how much that training leads you to believe the outcome is likely to turn out well. It’s a desperate maneuver, for the most desperate situations, like when you’re relatively sure you will die unless you act. In many other situations it will just be safer to play it cool. It sounds like a coin toss but the odds are much more in your favor especially on a crowded bus.
So, if this instructor went and tried what he did, not knowing there was a very good (>50%) chance he’d die…how did he end up with that mindset? This kind of “mental invincibility” is something I’ve seen in both kung fu circles as well as BJJ.
The JJ instructor wasn’t even the sole robbery target, he just happened to be on a bus of people getting robbed. The robber isn’t shooting anyone else, and kids now have no dad because this instructor got a case of white knight syndrome thinking he was going to be the one person on the bus who stood his ground.
He was the one person all right…but ends up in the ground instead. It’s a sad situation all around but if I learned one lesson (that I already knew) it was your money, wallet, ego etc are not as important as getting home to your family.
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2861303]So then I have a question where the hell did gun disarms get added to GJJ, and by whom?
They’re not in judo, right? Helio Gracie didn’t teach them did he? If disarms were added to GJJ, who added them and how qualified were they, and how qualified have the people teaching them since been? This worries me…
It’s not that you CAN’T disarm someone who has a knife or gun, the issue is whether or not you’re being taught “how to” realistically, and how much that training leads you to believe the outcome is likely to turn out well. It’s a desperate maneuver, for the most desperate situations, like when you’re relatively sure you will die unless you act. In many other situations it will just be safer to play it cool. It sounds like a coin toss but the odds are much more in your favor especially on a crowded bus.
So, if this instructor went and tried what he did, not knowing there was a very good (>50%) chance he’d die…how did he end up with that mindset? This kind of “mental invincibility” is something I’ve seen in both kung fu circles as well as BJJ.
The JJ instructor wasn’t even the sole robbery target, he just happened to be on a bus of people getting robbed. The robber isn’t shooting anyone else, and kids now have no dad because this instructor got a case of white knight syndrome thinking he was going to be the one person on the bus who stood his ground.
He was the one person all right…but ends up in the ground instead. It’s a sad situation all around but if I learned one lesson (that I already knew) it was your money, wallet, ego etc are not as important as getting home to your family.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BKR;2861313]The Goshin Jutsu (no kata) of Judo has 3 pistol disarms in it.
Pistol
Shomen-zuke (Pistol at the Abdomen)
Doshi-gamae (Pistol Held at the Side)
Haimen-zuke (Pistol against the Back)
I have no idea how “realistic” or workable they are.
I gotta agree with Rabbit, RIP the guy in Brazil, and I really feel for his family.[/QUOTE]
Just to be clear, I wasn’t trying to say he was wrong, only that I couldn’t say he was right either. He certainly seemed to bring up some valid points, for what my opinion is worth on the matter.
Condolences to his family&students. It’s good his bravery will be remembered, and a cold awakening to the harsh reality of the risks with trying to be a hero…
I’ve seen kimuras taught to policeman as a defence for anyone going for their holster. We did that stuff in MCMAP, and it’s all over Krav Maga&Systema videos, but let this be a reminder that all that stuff is meant for unlikely scenarios where you might have a gambler’s chance to pull of off a miracle rather than dying in submission. With all that Hollywood stuff you’re probably as likely to put a Steven Seagal wristlock on Mike Tyson.
[QUOTE=Ulsteryank;2861316]
I’ve seen kimuras taught to policeman as a defence for anyone going for their holster. We did that stuff in MCMAP, and it’s all over Krav Maga&Systema videos, but let this be a reminder that all that stuff is meant for unlikely scenarios where you might have a gambler’s chance to pull of off a miracle rather than dying in submission. With all that Hollywood stuff you’re probably as likely to put a Steven Seagal wristlock on Mike Tyson.[/QUOTE]
Right considering all the times a cop has to put their life on the “gambler’s dice” it makes a little more sense but consider their training is far different than, say, the average GJJ/BJJ school…teaching people to do kimuras against an armed attacker? Pocket sand might be more effective for the average student…for a cop, they’re some of the people most likely to have to subdue someone that way, but it’s still a 50-50 chance or better, they are risking a slug. But those risks they take every day on the job so…
But yeah the Hollywood factor is what I keep thinking about…Samuel L Jackson in the Pulp Fiction diner…everyone is scared but he’s the “BAD MOTHERFUCKER” who is gonna grab the guy with the gun and…you know what? I fear whole generations of kids have grown up with that “I’m gonna be the one who doesn’t surrender” attitude and it gets people shot and murdered every day.
Taken a gun out of someones hand. They thought they could intimidate. Caught them slipping.
Surprise of their life. At least thats how I read their facial expression.
Did not try to rnc the guy though. Just stripped his gun and proceeded to make it useless as a weapon.
Calmly imasculating an attacker really fucks with their feelings of superiority.
FWIW the “should you or shouldn’t you” argument is fucking stupid. If someone brings a gun to a fist fight your life is already forfeit. Gamblers dice have been rolled before you even get to make the descision. Act as if its the last thing you will do on earth because it just may be. When you cross the rainbow bridge what will you tell of your last act?
This man died a viking. A warriors death. He rolls in Valhalla now. His last act was empty hands vs. gun. The balls of that man. The sheer testicular fortitude. That’s some bushido code fo yo ass.
Rabbit would surrender his wallet and beg mercy from the merciless? The only reason to produce a wallet is for distraction. (street motherfucker, do you speak it?)
Shit like this is how I know he’s never struggled for his life. When it’s for real you don’t have a choice or time to deliberate. Your only choice is how you face the horror. Cower or fight. It is happening and you will endure or perish one way or another. Those are your only choices. Some degree of suffering or death. Hiding does not change this. Reason does not change this.
[QUOTE=Mr. Machette;2861326]Taken a gun out of someones hand. They thought they could intimidate. Caught them slipping.
Surprise of their life. At least thats how I read their facial expression.
Did not try to rnc the guy though. Just stripped his gun and proceeded to make it useless as a weapon.
Calmly imasculating an attacker really fucks with their feelings of superiority.
FWIW the “should you or shouldn’t you” argument is fucking stupid. If someone brings a gun to a fist fight your life is already forfeit. Gamblers dice have been rolled before you even get to make the descision. Act as if its the last thing you will do on earth because it just may be. When you cross the rainbow bridge what will you tell of your last act?
This man died a viking. A warriors death. He rolls in Valhalla now. His last act was empty hands vs. gun. The balls of that man. The sheer testicular fortitude. That’s some bushido code fo yo ass.
Rabbit would surrender his wallet and beg mercy from the merciless? The only reason to produce a wallet is for distraction. (street motherfucker, do you speak it?)
Shit like this is how I know he’s never struggled for his life. When it’s for real you don’t have a choice or time to deliberate. Your only choice is how you face the horror. Cower or fight. It is happening and you will endure or perish one way or another. Those are your only choices. Some degree of suffering or death. Hiding does not change this. Reason does not change this.
The gods do not reward cowardice. Ymmv.[/QUOTE]
Really, trolling (Rabbit ?) on THIS thread ? Or was the above some sort of ironic/sarcastic attempt at humor ?
[QUOTE=BKR;2861328]Really, trolling (Rabbit ?) on THIS thread ? Or was the above some sort of ironic/sarcastic attempt at humor ?[/QUOTE]
Children crying themselves to sleep each night and will never get chance to train jiujitsu with their dad, who let his fear drive him to do something rash that when all was said and done, would have been over quickly and no one gets hurt.
It was the most likely outcome before “the will to act”, as Ra’s al Ghul famously put it in “Batman Begins”, came into play. The trouble is Ra’s al Ghul was wrong. What some people believe is “will to act” is really just driven by fear, or anger, or desire.
Sometimes not acting is not only harder, and the better choice, it takes extraordinary willpower.
That’s how I’ll remember this one. Crying kids who’d prefer an alive dad who chose not to act, not a dead “would-be hero”.
[QUOTE=BKR;2861328]Really, trolling (Rabbit ?) on THIS thread ? Or was the above some sort of ironic/sarcastic attempt at humor ?[/QUOTE]
It’s a counterpoint to the “can’t win don’t try” argument.
Frankly on a site dedicated to “fighting” I’m suprised it has such a following.
Look. Everyone dies. How many of us trully live? To cower in fear is not living. To struggle till your last breath is.
Your life. Your choice.
(and W. Rabbit has me on ignore so he can’t even see that post, to answer your question.)