[QUOTE=goodlun;2776761]
Do I have any proof? Nope.
He hasn’t provided any proof that he was being nailed with brass knuckles either.[/QUOTE]
Brass knuckles covered in leather, which considering the fight circumstances is not too hard to imagine. It’s certainly been done before. Why does it “seem” to be a tall tail, when the guy involved won the fight and had NO reason to embellish anything?
He’s telling you what he thought he saw and thought was obvious. Hell, the audience thought for a while that he had actually killed Milo Savage…20 minutes later they were still confused as to how Gene put a pro boxer to sleep in front of their eyes. It must have seemed like magic back then. Today we’re all like “yeah sleeper ftw”.
Don’t mean to sound like IIF, but do I need to go pull ALL of the boxing matches where one guy cheated by stuffing their gloves? There is at least one major match in the last 30 years I can think of where this (indirectly) led to the death of a boxer and was the subject of an HBO documentary, “Assault in the Ring”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_in_the_Ring
Gene can make the claim without supplying proof: he was there.
YOU can’t claim it’s made up: you have no evidence it was made up other than a “feeling”.
I kinda doubt we’re talking about a conventional knuckleduster (metal with cutouts for the fingers) but I wouldn’t be too surprised if there were some shenanigans going on, especially if the greased karate gi is true. Some fighters have been known to add illegal hardening agents to their wraps or other wrap modifications to make them hit harder than they normally would.
[QUOTE=Permalost;2776768]I kinda doubt we’re talking about a conventional knuckleduster (metal with cutouts for the fingers) but I wouldn’t be too surprised if there were some shenanigans going on, especially if the greased karate gi is true. Some fighters have been known to add illegal hardening agents to their wraps or other wrap modifications to make them hit harder than they normally would.[/QUOTE]
I am fully willing to buy the good old plaster of paris wrap.
How much effect would a knuckleduster have through the padding of a boxing glove, compared to a normally wrapped hand?
[QUOTE=Permalost;2776771]How much effect would a knuckleduster have through the padding of a boxing glove, compared to a normally wrapped hand?[/QUOTE]
I would imagine it would be rather devastating as just using hardening agents on wraps seems to do quite a bit of damage.
You can see Savages gloves in the videos with an ok amount of clarity they look quite a bit like modern MMA gloves.
Just wondering if anyone has found the full fight available to watch?
[QUOTE=Permalost;2776771]How much effect would a knuckleduster have through the padding of a boxing glove, compared to a normally wrapped hand?[/QUOTE]
F = m*a. This is why boxing gloves are measured in units of mass…the force added by the ounce weight of the glove must be carefully standardized and controlled in boxing, and why adding anything, even “soft”, pliant material with significant mass can impart more newtons.
The reason boxing gloves are sealed and inspected before a fight is to prevent the addition of mass for this simple reason.
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2776776]F = m*a[/QUOTE]
If its that simple, does that mean a fist with a knuckleduster inside a glove is less dangerous than a fist with a knuckleduster alone?
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2776776]F = m*a[/QUOTE]
I think I would use Kinetic energy of rigid bodies over the standard force equation.
at anyrate I don’t believe the cushioning in the gloves is going to alter the A significantly enough(even when using v^2 of Kinetic Energy formula).
[QUOTE=Permalost;2776777]If its that simple, does that mean a fist with a knuckleduster inside a glove is less dangerous than a fist with a knuckleduster alone?[/QUOTE]
You asked about “through the padding of a boxing glove, compared to a normally wrapped hand?”. For that it is as simple as added mass = added Force.
But if we compare it to knuckle duster alone, we lose the malleable, shock absorbent padding which distributes all that force across a wide surface area (including reactive force received from the target), versus the very dense, unyielding surface of brass knuckles which actually direct force linearly (enough to break bones, something difficult to do with boxing gloves).
[QUOTE=goodlun;2776779]I think I would use Kinetic energy of rigid bodies over the standard force equation.
[/quote]
So because you thought of another physics equation that applies, you don’t think F=ma applies? F=ma always applies. We don’t have to get into vector calculus on Bullshido…
Both apply to hitting things. Stop being so dualistic, especially with physics.
[QUOTE=goodlun;2776779]
at anyrate I don’t believe the cushioning in the gloves is going to alter the A significantly enough(even when using v^2 of Kinetic Energy formula).[/QUOTE]
We’re not talking about acceleration or your kinetic energy formula. KISS!
We’re talking about adding mass to your fists, and why it’s been done for centuries to gain an advantage in fighting, and why it’s not a stretch to hear Gene report that it happened in an unsanctioned match well before our time.
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2776781]
We’re not talking about acceleration.
We’re talking about adding mass to your fists, and why it’s been done for centuries to gain an advantage in fighting.[/QUOTE]
My mistake I was under the impression that doing the plaster wrap was more about adding rigidity than weight. In this context that the rigidity effects acceleration by preventing deflection.
You are right it could purely be a mass thing. Even then I would still want to look at Kinetic Energy because Velocity is going to be slower as mass goes up and velocity is squared. So your total Kinetic Energy is going to depend on the rate at which your trading Mass for Velocity.
Kinetic Energy is what you want to look at because we are talking about performing work.
OR we can keep it simple and concise and you can admit Force (at least in this universe) is always the proportional product of mass and acceleration (in one dimension or in three), so increasing mass by 10% increases force by 10%. Increase mass 50%, that’s 50% more pure force being delivered (however it’s being distributed or reflected depending on materials).
Increasing acceleration by 10% is a whole lot harder than increasing the mass, which is trivial. It’s also where the vector math comes in, because punches don’t accelerate linearly, but in three dimensions.
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2776784]OR we can keep it simple and concise and you can admit Force is always the proportional product of mass and acceleration, so increasing mass by 10% increases force by 10%.
Increasing acceleration by 10% is a whole lot harder than increasing the mass, which is trivial.[/QUOTE]
This is why we need to quivel over using Kinetic Energy vs Force. With force its a linear relationship. With Kinetic Energy its exponential relationship.
[B]Anyways enough geeking out…
…Bullshido’s code is clear: don’t accuse Judo Gene of anything without proof or solid investigation. Anything less is mental pontificating and smearing a good man’s name, imho and if we don’t allow it for Random Soke on the Internet, we shouldn’t allow it for Gene Lebell.[/B]
Now I have to go train and get at least 50 pushups in because I promised that’s what I’d do whenever I got into a fucking physics debate on Bullshido.
Ta ta.
[QUOTE=JS_CD;2776680]He told a story of how he manhandled Bruce Lee. So i believe him…[/QUOTE]I believe it was Mark Tripp, who told that story… On BS, anyway.
I think tonight I’ll bring my knuckledusters to my heavy bag workout and see how they feel under gloves.
[QUOTE=goodlun;2776761]
I would think we would see some of the details in a news article of the day instead of many years later, long after Milo is dead and gone if it were 100% true.
[/QUOTE]
You know this is his OCD hang up, just let it go.
[QUOTE=goodlun;2776761]
I would think we would see some of the details in a news article of the day instead of many years later, long after Milo is dead and gone if it were 100% true.
[/QUOTE]
You know this is his bullshido trope, just let it go.
[QUOTE=Permalost;2776788]I think tonight I’ll bring my knuckledusters to my heavy bag workout and see how they feel under gloves.[/QUOTE]
I would be interested in seeing how well your gloves hold up as well.
Fuck you IIF…Harryhousen really died then since you have his pic for your avatar.
I know I derailed but I had to say something.