I write essays, but it isn't about semantics.

Reviews, Videos, and Everything Else Trollshido
1

[QUOTE=Vieux Normand;2743927]Nein.

Absolutely no Japanese should be taught in anyplace calling itself a

DOJO.

No irony whatsoever. None.[/QUOTE]

LOL! Truth be told, this is it in a nutshell. Why even call it a dojo anymore if we’re going to completely devalue the language itself?

[QUOTE=Devil;2743912]The bottom line is that there is no link between language and martial effectiveness. There is also no link between language and honor and there is no link between language and discipline. And if history is your concern, it can be taught in any language.

If you enjoy teaching and/or learning using Japanese, there’s nothing wrong with that. You’re right, it does make your martial art more than a fighting system. It makes it a fighting system with additional vocabulary. But the use of Japanese or any other language adds nothing that’s essential for a student to learn technique, discipline, character or history. Japanese is not a magic wand for martial arts excellence.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree and disagree with your post (and the others that share the same sentiments)…yes, bottom line, language shouldn’t have anything to do with it, as you can be learning great stuff or bullshido from either a Japanese guy or an American guy. That said, where I somewhat disagree is that if you call yourself learning a TRADITIONAL art, then, ummm, there’s something to that tradition. Here’s what I’m getting at: When you have a dojo that doesn’t use any traditional language from the traditional art they claim to traditionally teach, doesn’t that open the door to all types of bullshit to permeate within the training without any baseline to fact check from?

I mean, if you know this kick is called a “kissmyassgimi” in Japanese, and you happen to have a discussion with a student from a different dojo and he performs a kick and calls it the “kissmyassgimi,” you know if there’s a fundamental difference between his and yours, then somebody’s got it wrong. So within the terminology, there’s a baseline to check these things from.

I hope no one takes this the wrong way (I know, I know…that pretty guarantees someone does), but I see plenty of guys on this forum double dipping with their bashing of the traditional arts. You can’t on one hand say all the language and traditional stuff other than the striking itself is essentially useless, and then on the other hand, place all of the dojos under the same umbrella for watering down the traditional arts to the point to where it’s ineffective. Without the traditional language, there’s no universal baseline, which opens Pandora’s box to stuff like Shinjimasu and other…umm, questionable arts.

I don’t train anything traditional myself and I’m just starting (well, half ass starting until I get some health and business things completely cleared up) BJJ, but my daughter takes traditional Shotokan from Champion Karate and Fitness (CKF) in Douglasville, GA and also takes BJJ at an Alliance school in Powder Springs, GA called Tekniques. My daughter used to take Taekwondo at school in Douglasville until I learned about McDojos in part from you wonderful folks (and in part from seeing her lose to a child a head shorter than her with half her ability in her first tournament, which clearly showed whatever I was spending money on, it wasn’t to teach her how to fight). CKF uses traditional language, and they also train traditionally and my daughter has become a much better fighter in the meantime, and not only does her tournament results show it, but the in class sparring, which isn’t all point sparring, by the way, shows it as well.

I have no doubt that much of it is due to the consistency of the training, and the language is, indeed, a part of that. It might be a small part, but it has it’s place when learning a TRADITIONAL art. Yes, they could do the same thing in English, but how the hell would parents like myself who actually care about the quality of training be able to check to make sure there is some validity to what is being taught?

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[QUOTE=DVilleDaddy80;2752735] That said, where I somewhat disagree is that if you call yourself learning a TRADITIONAL art, then, ummm, there’s something to that tradition. Here’s what I’m getting at: When you have a dojo that doesn’t use any traditional language from the traditional art they claim to traditionally teach, doesn’t that open the door to all types of bullshit to permeate within the training without any baseline to fact check from? [/quote] Hmmm…that has happened when you use the TRADITIONAL language, so that means the flaw lies somewhere else.

I mean, if you know this kick is called a “kissmyassgimi” in Japanese, and you happen to have a discussion with a student from a different dojo and he performs a kick and calls it the “kissmyassgimi,” you know if there’s a fundamental difference between his and yours, then somebody’s got it wrong. So within the terminology, there’s a baseline to check these things from.
Yes, this was addressed if you continue the thread.

Without the traditional language, there’s no universal baseline, which opens Pandora’s box to stuff like Shinjimasu and other…umm, questionable arts.
See above.

3

[QUOTE=It is Fake;2752737]Hmmm…that has happened when you use the TRADITIONAL language, so that means the flaw lies somewhere else.

Yes, this was addressed if you continue the thread.
See above.[/QUOTE]

Soooooo…you agreed with me? I mean, you just said what I said. If it does happen where they claim to teach traditionally and use traditional language, then you can find out because the language doesn’t match up to the commonly known meanings. Therefore, the language itself doesn’t make the teaching infallible, but it does serve a purpose.

Glad we all agree on that. (Shakes hands, tips hat, leaves tip)

4

…and as far as not reading the full thread, sorry, but that’s a lot of reading there, Jack! I’d never get a first post out for all the reading I’d have to do with how long threads get here, lol!

5

[QUOTE=DVilleDaddy80;2752740]…and as far as not reading the full thread, sorry, but that’s a lot of reading there, Jack! I’d never get a first post out for all the reading I’d have to do with how long threads get here, lol![/QUOTE]

If you say so. Reading the thread is a serious Protip.

6

[QUOTE=DVilleDaddy80;2752739]Soooooo…you agreed with me?[/quote] No, not at all. Your posts and this one imply that the Traditional language has a built in self defense against BS. It does not.

I mean, you just said what I said.
No, I did not. I pointed out your example was flawed. Basically, that “the original” language has nothing to do with BS existing in an art or whether it is traditional.

I can get you threads where someone was taught Judo and it turned out it was BS Judo. This person was taught ALL of the “traditional” terminology,but the techniques were poorly taught. As a beginner, he had no clue. The kicker? It was actually the misuse of English terminology that put us onto the fraud. Honestly, if he had of stuck to Japanese terminology, he may have gone on teaching for years.

Hell, I actually fit in that box as well. The traditional language can be a fraud trap as well.

If it does happen where they claim to teach traditionally and use traditional language, then you can find out because the language doesn’t match up to the commonly known meanings. Therefore, the language itself doesn’t make the teaching infallible, but it does serve a purpose.
See example above.

7

[QUOTE=It is Fake;2752745]No, not at all. Your posts and this one imply that the Traditional language has a built in self defense against BS. It does not.

No, I did not. I pointed out your example was flawed. Basically, that “the original” language has nothing to do with BS existing in an art or whether it is traditional.

I can get you threads where someone was taught Judo and it turned out it was BS Judo. This person was taught ALL of the “traditional” terminology,but the techniques were poorly taught. As a beginner, he had no clue. The kicker? It was actually the misuse of English terminology that put us onto the fraud. Honestly, if he had of stuck to Japanese terminology, he may have gone on teaching for years.

Hell, I actually fit in that box as well. The traditional language can be a fraud trap as well.
See example above.[/QUOTE]

Again, you say nothing different from what I said.

“I mean, if you know this kick is called a “kissmyassgimi” in Japanese, and you happen to have a discussion with a student from a different dojo and he performs a kick and calls it the “kissmyassgimi,” you know if there’s a fundamental difference between his and yours, then somebody’s got it wrong. So within the terminology, there’s a baseline to check these things from.”

That last half pretty much explains that the traidtional terminology can be used as a baseline for those attempting to validate what’s being taught, not that the language itself somehow makes the art infallible. If you thought my post “implied” such, you misread.

It appears that in your judo example, no one simply checked at the time. They call that ‘due diligence.’ Same thing as me not checking with outside sources what they were teaching my daughter at the TKDMCDojo. Hey, it happens to the best of us. If there are universal terms being used that should be known by any ‘real’ practitioner of the art, then that means one can always cross check what he is learning with someone who is attempting to teach/learn that art elsewhere. That’s all I have been saying, don’t attempt to make it more than what was posted.

On the post reading thing, Darpacheif…time restricts my ability to read every last post in every thread. Believe it or not, I read pretty fast, and I don’t really believe in ADD, but alas, I have other things to do as well. Next time I will remember to tag the post with a disclaimer that I didn’t read it first to last before chiming in.

8

[QUOTE=doofaloofa;2744874]All those stupid foreigners should shut up and learn english for fucks’ sake[/QUOTE]You fuck about in this forum with that shite again and the infractions start. This is not YMAS.

9

[QUOTE=DVilleDaddy80;2752749]Again, you say nothing different from what I said. [/quote] Yes, I did you just can’t grasp the point.

“I mean, if you know this kick is called a “kissmyassgimi” in Japanese, and you happen to have a discussion with a student from a different dojo and he performs a kick and calls it the “kissmyassgimi,” you know if there’s a fundamental difference between his and yours, then somebody’s got it wrong. So within the terminology, there’s a baseline to check these things from.”
Nope. I did Tai Chi I and learned peng. I could demonstrate peng. I could apply peng. Sitting with other stylists in discussion, without showing technique, we were able to hold conversations. Sparring or training our techniques were similar. Recently, it was definitively proven I trained with a fraud. So, the BS was covered in language and technique. the “baseline” existed, but it was the lineage of the teacher that was in question… Hence my saying, using traditional language DOESDOES not prevent someone or an art from opening “the door to all types of bullshit to permeate within the training without any baseline to fact check from?”

Which means:

I have to agree and disagree with your post (and the others that share the same sentiments)…yes, bottom line, language shouldn’t have anything to do with it, as you can be learning great stuff or bullshido from either a Japanese guy or an American guy. That said, where I somewhat disagree is that if you call yourself learning a TRADITIONAL art, then, ummm, there’s something to that tradition. Here’s what I’m getting at: When you have a dojo that doesn’t use any traditional language from the traditional art they claim to traditionally teach, doesn’t that open the door to all types of bullshit to permeate within the training without any baseline to fact check from?

I mean, if you know this kick is called a “kissmyassgimi” in Japanese, and you happen to have a discussion with a student from a different dojo and he performs a kick and calls it the “kissmyassgimi,” you know if there’s a fundamental difference between his and yours, then somebody’s got it wrong. So within the terminology, there’s a baseline to check these things from.

Is a flawed assumption. No, we are not saying the same thing at all.

That last half pretty much explains that the traidtional terminology can be used as a baseline for those attempting to validate what’s being taught, not that the language itself somehow makes the art infallible. If you thought my post “implied” such, you misread.
Nope, you are still missing the point of my post.

It appears that in your judo example, no one simply checked at the time. They call that ‘due diligence.’ Same thing as me not checking with outside sources what they were teaching my daughter at the TKDMCDojo. Hey, it happens to the best of us. If there are universal terms being used that should be known by any ‘real’ practitioner of the art, then that means one can always cross check what he is learning with someone who is attempting to teach/learn that art elsewhere. That’s all I have been saying, don’t attempt to make it more than what was posted.
I also said there were more examples and included myself. Nope it isn’t just “due diligence.”

10

[QUOTE=It is Fake;2752759]Yes, I did you just can’t grasp the point.

Nope. I did Tai Chi I and learned peng. I could demonstrate peng. I could apply peng. Sitting with other stylists in discussion, without showing technique, we were able to hold conversations. Sparring or training our techniques were similar. Recently, it was definitively proven I trained with a fraud. So, the BS was covered in language and technique. the “baseline” existed, but it was the lineage of the teacher that was in question… Hence my saying, using traditional language DOESDOES not prevent someone or an art from opening “the door to all types of bullshit to permeate within the training without any baseline to fact check from?”

Which means:

Is a flawed assumption. No, we are not saying the same thing at all.

Nope, you are still missing the point of my post.

I also said there were more examples and included myself. Nope it isn’t just “due diligence.”[/QUOTE]

Sooooo, there’s more ways BS can be found in martial arts besides in language? Really? THAT’S the point of this back and forth? I assumed that was common knowledge on a board whose mandate appears to be the sniffing out and disposing of BS in martial arts. I apologize, I didn’t know semantics was the root of the discourse here. Allow me to amend…

“When you have a dojo that doesn’t use any traditional language from the traditional art they claim to traditionally teach, doesn’t that open the door to SOME types of bullshit to permeate within the training without any baseline to fact check from?”

Are we good now? It was more slang than anything, kind of like when I asked my friend how was it looking in the strip club for New Year’s, and he responded with, “Man, there were ALL types of bad (chicks) off in there!” Of course, he didn’t mean ALL types, as he was at a known black strip club in one of the seedier parts of town. So there were different shapes and shades of black women. It would have to literally be the Noah’s Ark of strip clubs to have ALL types of bad (chicks) inside. In fact, if a strip club exists with ALL types of bad (chicks), metinks it would be difficult to locate outside of Miami.

Oh, and sorry, much more often than not, whenever you, me, or anyone else is systematically duped, chances are we didn’t do our due diligence, or for whatever reason, we didn’t want to…and no, I’m not going to provide the statistics that back that, Mr. Literal.

11

[QUOTE=DVilleDaddy80;2752749]Again, you say nothing different from what I said.

“I mean, if you know this kick is called a “kissmyassgimi” in Japanese, and you happen to have a discussion with a student from a different dojo and he performs a kick and calls it the “kissmyassgimi,” you know if there’s a fundamental difference between his and yours, then somebody’s got it wrong. So within the terminology, there’s a baseline to check these things from.”

That last half pretty much explains that the traidtional terminology can be used as a baseline for those attempting to validate what’s being taught, not that the language itself somehow makes the art infallible. If you thought my post “implied” such, you misread.

It appears that in your judo example, no one simply checked at the time. They call that ‘due diligence.’ Same thing as me not checking with outside sources what they were teaching my daughter at the TKDMCDojo. Hey, it happens to the best of us. If there are universal terms being used that should be known by any ‘real’ practitioner of the art, then that means one can always cross check what he is learning with someone who is attempting to teach/learn that art elsewhere. That’s all I have been saying, don’t attempt to make it more than what was posted.

On the post reading thing, Darpacheif…time restricts my ability to read every last post in every thread. Believe it or not, I read pretty fast, and I don’t really believe in ADD, but alas, I have other things to do as well. Next time I will remember to tag the post with a disclaimer that I didn’t read it first to last before chiming in.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DVilleDaddy80;2752735]LOL! Truth be told, this is it in a nutshell. Why even call it a dojo anymore if we’re going to completely devalue the language itself?

I have to agree and disagree with your post (and the others that share the same sentiments)…yes, bottom line, language shouldn’t have anything to do with it, as you can be learning great stuff or bullshido from either a Japanese guy or an American guy. That said, where I somewhat disagree is that if you call yourself learning a TRADITIONAL art, then, ummm, there’s something to that tradition. Here’s what I’m getting at: When you have a dojo that doesn’t use any traditional language from the traditional art they claim to traditionally teach, doesn’t that open the door to all types of bullshit to permeate within the training without any baseline to fact check from?

I mean, if you know this kick is called a “kissmyassgimi” in Japanese, and you happen to have a discussion with a student from a different dojo and he performs a kick and calls it the “kissmyassgimi,” you know if there’s a fundamental difference between his and yours, then somebody’s got it wrong. So within the terminology, there’s a baseline to check these things from.

I hope no one takes this the wrong way (I know, I know…that pretty guarantees someone does), but I see plenty of guys on this forum double dipping with their bashing of the traditional arts. You can’t on one hand say all the language and traditional stuff other than the striking itself is essentially useless, and then on the other hand, place all of the dojos under the same umbrella for watering down the traditional arts to the point to where it’s ineffective. Without the traditional language, there’s no universal baseline, which opens Pandora’s box to stuff like Shinjimasu and other…umm, questionable arts.

I don’t train anything traditional myself and I’m just starting (well, half ass starting until I get some health and business things completely cleared up) BJJ, but my daughter takes traditional Shotokan from Champion Karate and Fitness (CKF) in Douglasville, GA and also takes BJJ at an Alliance school in Powder Springs, GA called Tekniques. My daughter used to take Taekwondo at school in Douglasville until I learned about McDojos in part from you wonderful folks (and in part from seeing her lose to a child a head shorter than her with half her ability in her first tournament, which clearly showed whatever I was spending money on, it wasn’t to teach her how to fight). CKF uses traditional language, and they also train traditionally and my daughter has become a much better fighter in the meantime, and not only does her tournament results show it, but the in class sparring, which isn’t all point sparring, by the way, shows it as well.

I have no doubt that much of it is due to the consistency of the training, and the language is, indeed, a part of that. It might be a small part, but it has it’s place when learning a TRADITIONAL art. Yes, they could do the same thing in English, but how the hell would parents like myself who actually care about the quality of training be able to check to make sure there is some validity to what is being taught?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=DVilleDaddy80;2752770]Sooooo, there’s more ways BS can be found in martial arts besides in language? Really? THAT’S the point of this back and forth? I assumed that was common knowledge on a board whose mandate appears to be the sniffing out and disposing of BS in martial arts. I apologize, I didn’t know semantics was the root of the discourse here. Allow me to amend…

“When you have a dojo that doesn’t use any traditional language from the traditional art they claim to traditionally teach, doesn’t that open the door to SOME types of bullshit to permeate within the training without any baseline to fact check from?”

Are we good now? It was more slang than anything, kind of like when I asked my friend how was it looking in the strip club for New Year’s, and he responded with, “Man, there were ALL types of bad (chicks) off in there!” Of course, he didn’t mean ALL types, as he was at a known black strip club in one of the seedier parts of town. So there were different shapes and shades of black women. It would have to literally be the Noah’s Ark of strip clubs to have ALL types of bad (chicks) inside. In fact, if a strip club exists with ALL types of bad (chicks), metinks it would be difficult to locate outside of Miami.

Oh, and sorry, much more often than not, whenever you, me, or anyone else is systematically duped, chances are we didn’t do our due diligence, or for whatever reason, we didn’t want to…and no, I’m not going to provide the statistics that back that, Mr. Literal.[/QUOTE]

Three essays and it isn’t about semantics. Sure thing Mr. Irony.