I signed - will you???

MMA and Combat Sports Forum: Boxing, UFC, etc.
21

[quote=ruptureclothing;2095716]No. That MMA is human cockfighting, requires no skills, and the fans are a bunch of idiots. That kind of stuff. Did you read the article? Johnny linked it again above my last post.

And - easy on the personal attacks. I haven’t called you any names. I suggest you refrain from doing same.[/quote]

I refuse to sign, and I’ll tell you why as best I can. Besides the fact that Mike Freeman is allowed to say what he wants, he is pretty much right in most facets. It doesn’t matter how much Dana White has done for the sport of MMA, (which isn’t that different from buying up any and every organization he can and creating a monopoly of sort) it doesn’t give him the right to treat people the way he does and to have the holier than thou attitude that he constantly displays.

I won’t say that MMA is human cockfighting, but I will say that MMA in America requires virtually no skill and lacks the technical aspects that individual arts have. I mean when UFC first made it’s debut it was fun to see different people skilled in specific arts fight each other to see which one was superior in that setting, but now that everybody is crosstraining it’s become more about conditioning and how well someone can take a punch.

The few people you see that actually do have any skill are the ones who had already dedicated majority of their life to a specific style or trained in multiple styles since birth, such as wanderlei, anderson silva, cro cop, noguiera, urijah, and many of the pride fighters, who unsurprisingly are the ones dominating in the UFC.

I wholeheartedly agree with freeman on the fan base that MMA in America draws in as well as his other points. Not all, but the MAJORITY of UFC/WEC fans that I’ve come in contact with are meatheads who have no real experience in any martial arts, are the ones that come into gyms across the united states in an attempt to prove something, end up hurting people, and are stupid enough to think that wearing a UFC, tapout, or affliction shirt gives them some level of invincibility.

I think the petition that we should be signing is to have Dana White fired and replaced with someone who would strive to make the image of MMA in America once again respectable, just like it was before everyone who thought they were tough joined the bandwagon.

22

[quote=Snake Plissken;2095753]Ever think that Mike Freeman, opinion columnist for CBS, is just firing sour grapes shots at UFC Head Dana White in retaliation for the Elite XC debacle?
[/quote]

VERY good point - but his first article predates that, I believe.

As far as DW - he is who he is. I personally think a lot of what he does was part of a clever act to draw attention to his promotion. It worked, btw. I also think that he realizes, especially after his last vlog, that as the face of a billion-dollar plus organization his opinions and behavior will be closely scrutinized and interpreted in a general fashion. I think your opinion mirrors Whacker’s, who had one of the most well thought-out arguments I’ve seen on a forum in a while.

Speaking of - Dana took a TON of heat for his last vlog. But he did apologize for his behavior. Looking at the flip side of the coin, has Mike Freeman ever apologized for the first article he wrote?

And -btw - the vlogs were actually (at least to me) a more enjoyable and personable part of the UFC. They’re now gone - DW will not do anymore. I think DW realized his comments have a certain public influence. I think it’s time Mike Freeman learned that as well.

23

[quote=espm1000;2095763]

I won’t say that MMA is human cockfighting, but I will say that MMA in America requires virtually no skill and lacks the technical aspects that individual arts have[/quote]

Good Lord pal, did you come to the wrong place for this.

Have you ever trained MMA? Ever been in a cage? Ever had punches AND kicks thrown at you? Ever had to defend elbows from the guard? Punches from the half-guard while trying to attempt to bring back to full guard, or sweep? Submit from the bottom while you’re being pummeled? Defend knees in the clinch while going for the takedown? Do you know how difficult it is to go 3 five-minute rounds doing that? Or 5 rounds?

Did you watch the GSP vs. BJ fight? Did you see BJ gas? Did you see GSP tool him because, well, GSP is simply on another level right now? BJ is one of my heroes, and he’s a world class grappler. I lost a rash guard to Moose due to that match.

I see Judo and Sambo on your profile. I do Judo and BJJ. I’ve done Judo a LONG time, and BJJ for 5 years. I also box, but my hands suck something awful :).

I’m a competitive Judo player to this day. I’m 32, but I still compete in Senior Adult (that’s brown and black, under 30), at 73 kilos. A 5-minute Judo match will leave you winded, and that’s just grappling, no punches, kicks, elbows, knees. And I mostly do well at that. The first time I tried MMA I got MAULED. And mind you, this was at the gym. In class. In a friendly environment. If you’ve never done it, it’s impossible to know how much skill it really requires.

And I’m being nice. Good Lord bro… don’t make statements like that here… things won’t go well for you.

24

[quote=ruptureclothing;2095768]Good Lord pal, did you come to the wrong place for this.

Have you ever trained MMA? Ever been in a cage? Ever had punches AND kicks thrown at you? Ever had to defend elbows from the full guard? Punches from the half-guard while trying to attempt to bring back to full guard, or sweep? Submit from the bottom while you’re being pummeled? Do you know how difficult it is to go 3 five-minute rounds doing that? Or 5 rounds?

Did you watch the GSP vs. BJ fight? Did you see BJ gas? Did you see GSP tool him because, well, GSP is simply on another level right now? BJ is one of my heroes, and he’s a world class grappler. I lost a rash guard to Moose due to that match.

I see Judo and Sambo on your profile. I do Judo and BJJ. I’ve done Judo a LONG time, and BJJ for 5 years. I also box, but my hands suck something awful :).

I’m a competitive Judo player to this day. I’m 32, but I still compete in Senior Adult (that’s brown and black, under 30), at 73 kilos. A 5-minute Judo match will leave you winded, and that’s just grappling, no punches, kicks, elbows, knees. And I mostly do well at that. The first time I tried MMA I got MAULED. And mind you, this was at the gym. In class. In a friendly environment. If you’ve never done it, it’s impossible to know how much skill it really requires.

And I’m being nice. Good Lord bro… don’t make statements like that here… things won’t go well for you.[/quote]

I’ll say this, I’m biased heavily since I was a huge pride fan, but I have been in those situations and still have a bad taste in my mouth about the elitexc debacle. One of the gyms I used to train at catered to mixed martial arts and hosted it’s own amateur MMA fights. It does take a lot of skill to get out of those situations, but it just feels that MMA in this country is watered down compared to the likes of Vale Tudo or the Japanese rulesets that they had in Pride.

There are a few fighters I love watching and will watch just for that, two of them being GSP and BJ Penn, hell, I loved that match where Penn trapped pulver’s arm and worked the RNC, but it’s rare to find fighters like that among the masses that are competing in pro and amateur bouts these days.

Like I said before though, the good fighters you see usually trained exclusively in one style for a long period of time, which is what they always turn to, whereas many of the fighters now days tend to spread themselves too far and get in trouble because of that.

I used to love UFC, I used to love training in MMA, but I have a bad taste in my mouth with the direction that it seems the american organizations are going. If anything, it reminds me of WWF with all of the rivalries and such.

25

If you’re biased towards an organization, state that. I’m biased one way towards Mike Freeman - I think that’s pretty damn clear from this thread.

However, saying MMA in America requires virtually no skill on an MMA forum is a pretty hefty statement to make. Your point about the different organizations is moot. Vale Tudo is Vale Tudo, and it will never be allowed in the US, as it should not be. The sport has grown into a legitimate sport because rules were put in place to keep guys from killing each other in a cage. Rules are what allowed it to be sanctioned by a governing body. Rules are what allowed MMA to adhere to certain safety regulations so it could be legitimized as a sport and not a sideshow circus. Pride had safety rules in Place, so did EliteXC, Bodog Fight, etc.

Listen to and read Big John McCarthy’s interviews about the first UFC’s. He talks about how hard they were to ref, because of the lack of rules. Every sport has them - would the NFL, for instance, condone kicking the quarterback in the head after he was sacked?

26

[quote=espm1000;2095763]
I won’t say that MMA is human cockfighting, but I will say that MMA in America requires virtually no skill and lacks the technical aspects that individual arts have.[/quote]

You’re a stupid fucking douchebag.

The technical level of each individual art is maximized as its effectiveness is truley tested. You can’t be throwing chambered silly high kicks with no power against a grappler, and you can’t just flop to guard against a striker. It makes every art compensate and become TRULEY great.

Goddamnit, I invite you to come to my Gym, for a free class.

27

I fucking adore that goddamn rashguard, so much.

28

if MMA is so easy and requires such little skill, why do i suck at it?

29

ROFL Moose. Such a bad bet for me to take. I’m a huge BJ fan, but GSP is in rarified air these days, Vaseline or not :). I’m glad you like the rash guard regardless.

Cheers,

Nick

30

Yeah, i’m still extremely upset by that idiot’s comments.

Not because I’m a fighter, I’m not. I just combatively cuddle with people, and go to muay thai once or twice a week.

But I know fighters. I know lots of fighters, who’s life is fighting, who work harder then anyone i’ve ever known just to get prepared for their next fight, hoping they’ll get noticed because they’re a month late on the car payment and might not be able to get around. I’ve met fighters who almost cried when I brought them take out, because they hadn’t eaten in two days but couldn’t stop training because they have fights coming up, and this is their only shot at not making $8/hour.

31

For up-and-coming fighters, the climb is absolutely brutal. Even professionals who string together decent win streaks have a tough time. There are guys out there that are 10-0, 11-0, etc., that can’t get a shot at the bigger promotions.

The money’s not really there for most pros until they get to orgs like WEC, UFC, Affliction. Even then, the paydays for most undercards and up and comers are not great. On top of all that, a lot of professional fighters can’t afford to have a day job because they need to train.

There’s a guy at my boxing/MMA gym that has has a long ammy boxing career. Ton of wins, like 16 or 17, with few or no losses. 1-1 MMA record (won via KO, lost via submission). All he does is train. Everytime I go, he’s in the gym. Literally lives there (wouldn’t be surprised if he did). I talked to him one night after my boxing class - he never wants to do anything else. As a 1-1 ammy, he’s not making sponsorship dollars or money from fighting. But he never talks about giving up.

I have no idea whether he’ll make it or not, but you can’t help but support guys like that.

32

[quote=3moose1;2095876]
I know lots of fighters, who’s life is fighting, who work harder then anyone i’ve ever known just to get prepared for their next fight, hoping they’ll get noticed because they’re a month late on the car payment and might not be able to get around. I’ve met fighters who almost cried when I brought them take out, because they hadn’t eaten in two days but couldn’t stop training because they have fights coming up, and this is their only shot at not making $8/hour.[/quote]

This always comes across as being irresponsible to me, wanting to play a game for a living even though the shot of doing so is slim at best, ignoring bills and obligations so you can go out and entertain people.

At least get a sugar daddy or something.

33

My dad has a similar opinion on MMA to Mike Freeman’s. He, like the writer, thinks it’s brutal and it’s not because he’s an idiot, a pussy or a douche. He simply doesn’t understand the sport. He loves boxing and he even watches NCAA wrestling tournament qualifiers on ESPN 8, The Ocho. He boxed in the Corps and was an all-state wrestler in high school. I try to explain it to him, probably the wrong way, and say, “Hey, what if the wrestlers were allowed to punch each other, or the boxers could do takedowns? That’s what MMA is!” His answer seems to be that if they could do that, it wouldn’t be a sport anymore.

I dunno, he doesn’t get it, and probably never will. But he’s at least okay with me enjoying it.

34

I wouldn’t put it past a large network like CBS to either hire a writer or have a writer author slam pieces on a competitor.

As far as DW - he is who he is. I personally think a lot of what he does was part of a clever act to draw attention to his promotion. It worked, btw. I also think that he realizes, especially after his last vlog, that as the face of a billion-dollar plus organization his opinions and behavior will be closely scrutinized and interpreted in a general fashion. I think your opinion mirrors Whacker’s, who had one of the most well thought-out arguments I’ve seen on a forum in a while.
It probably is a clever act as he is a bright guy, but he needs to expect this sort of backlash. The nature of the UFC is very closed-door, insipid, incestuous, nepotismic organization that essentially promotes only its own fighters with White being the focal point. He is the lightning rod and he attracts the criticism. When he launches SCUDS, he needs to expect the Patriot Missile be fired back.

ESPECIALLY, with the salary structure the way it is.
If the fighters made more money, like boxing money, the “cockfighting” argument would be nullified.

Speaking of - Dana took a TON of heat for his last vlog. But he did apologize for his behavior. Looking at the flip side of the coin, has Mike Freeman ever apologized for the first article he wrote?
Therein lies the dichotomy, Mike Freeman is an opinion columnist, not the head of the largest MMA promotion in the world.
Holding him to the same standards as Dana White will not happen.

The closest you will get is for CBS online to hire a more “pro MMA” columnist to counterbalance Mike Freeman.

And -btw - the vlogs were actually (at least to me) a more enjoyable and personable part of the UFC. They’re now gone - DW will not do anymore. I think DW realized his comments have a certain public influence. I think it’s time Mike Freeman learned that as well.
Then an online petition will not do shit.

It won’t.

If you are serious, you need to make a comprehensive list of all the sponsors of the CBS Sports site and write them actual pen and paper letters, as well as some middle management VP of Advertising.

Tell them you do not like, in written hand, the spoutings of Mike Freeman and as long as he is authoring a column, you will not peruse the CBS online site nor will you patronize its sponsors.

And you tell the sponsors the exact same thing.

35

[quote=stray_bullet;2095881]This always comes across as being irresponsible to me, wanting to play a game for a living even though the shot of doing so is slim at best, ignoring bills and obligations so you can go out and entertain people.

At least get a sugar daddy or something.[/quote]

I know, it is, and I couldn’t do it.

However,

If you have a dream, you’ll follow it. Fighting is the dream of these people, and You have to admire their determination.

36

I’m not going to bother arguing against these points because if you truely believe them, then you are a fucking idiot who doesn’t know the first thing about MMA.

If you are the new fan base, I would rather go back to when MMA was underground. You have no knowledge of MMA or its real fan base. You have probably only watched MMA at Hooters.

The meathead fans I can deal with. Dumbassess like you, who think they have knowledge of the sport and it’s intracacies, I can’t deal with. You are ignorant of what you think you are knowledgable in. You believe your own bull shit, and that makes you worse than someone who knows they are full of shit.

Btw, I signed this potition becaue I support MMA and I hate people who are alowed to give their opinion of the sport to an audience but are not educated enough in the sport to be qualified to do so. This dumb ass should be fired and someone should be hired who know what they are talking about, or someone who knows that they don’t have enough knowledge of the subject and will keep their mouth shut about it.

37

espm1000, it’s all good man :). Seriously. I liked Pride as well - I’m a huge Fedor and Nog fan.

MMA evolves on a daily basis. The cage has a completely different flavor than the ring. Ask CroCop - another one of my all-time favorites. God, I remember his fight with Bob Sapp in K-1, what a left leg that guy had.

Here, I’ll move this on to a lighter topic :).

Mirko Crocop Vs Bob Sapp - Video

Cheers,

Nick

38

I liked Pride more than the UFC also. I also don’t like Dana White. But I love MMA!

39

Wow. Talk about shitty journalism. Forget bias, the dude has trouble forming complete sentences for god’s sake.

And yes, Dana White acts like a douchebag. I appreciate the fact that there’s no such thing as bad publicity, but I really would rather see the UFC pursue a more polished PR strategy.

40

[quote=espm1000;2095763]
I won’t say that MMA is human cockfighting, but I will say that MMA in America requires virtually no skill and lacks the technical aspects that individual arts have. [/quote]

You, sir, need to lay off teh fucking crack pipe. Not even sure what to say to this besides the fact that I am incredibly surprised to see this sort of ignorance in the MMA section of Bullshido.