have not taken it but seems very useful. my friend has trained in it.
bagua is actually in part the precursor to aikido. aikido has its roots in bagua and tai chi chin na (join manipulation)
aikido was developed as a synthesis of other martial arts. i think his name was ueshiba.
anyways, he simply did not mention his travels to china and only listed japanese martial arts for purposes of nationalism and pride. as you know the japanese have a nice habit of historical rewrites.
how do i know this? i am heavily involved in the CMA community outside and inside of china.
no one has real proof, except for stories of ueshiba learning watered down bagua, paying tons of gold, buying a house for his sifu in china. it could all be lies. i dont really care. there is no point of debating. its all heresay at this point. im just saying what i know.
i did a quick google search
Chinese Influences on Jujutsu/Aikido - AikiWeb Aikido Forums
given the fact that it is known (with current and historical evidence) that china had a large influence on japan culturally before the meiji restoration and that karate comes from shaolin kung fu (also, kempo is the japanese pronounciation of chuan fa. shaolin chaun fa = shaolin kempo) it is not hard to fathom that other japanese MA had its roots in Chinese MAs too
you sure seem to “know” a lot in a post that is by your own admission completely without any factual proof and is a theory based on hearsay.
there are lots of things that you also “know” based on what others have told you because there is no way to prove or disprove it. people base their knowledge of history based on what they read in books or what they are told in school.
He’s not making a point about solipsism or epistemology, jackass76. STFU.
i know that. my point is this:
he may believe one history about aikido. no proof in that.
i believe in another. no proof in that either.
its a wash. my belief is no more ridiculous than his. “STFU”. very mature.
Except his has shitloads of documentary evidence, and yours has none. We’re not talking about bodhidharma at the shaolin temple here. We are talking about a very famous 20th century person with multiple contemporary biographers.
yes the biographies. all that “evidence” is disputable hearsay just like what i heard.
the difference is that i have a personal relationship with these people and so of course i will believe them as it is not an incredibly fantastic tale.
i completely understand that this is not sufficient evidence to absolutely prove anything, but hey people worship a dead jew carpenter with magical powers and they get less shit than me!
Now, this right here, should have told you not to post.
He asked about Bagua practitioners not, a chunner who knows aikidokas.
Was wondering who else trained in this? I know of Dale on here, but thats about it?
I tried to start a thread that ended badly due to my own stupidity, but I am curious how many people train it on here, or really just anyone’s thoughts on it and it’s usefulness.
Aikidoka history no.
You can believe them, but we won’t believe you, because you’re just some random asshat who’s mashing on a keyboard.
Credibility is not a myth just because you don’t have any of it.
Lots of rumors of Ueshiba going to China and meeting a bunch of IMA exponents
But they are just that, rumors. No credible sources exist to support this IIRC.
I can see how this started though, with both Bagua and Aikido being obsessed with circles (hint it’s not the same circles).
Oh, “and Bill Duff, a former pro-football player and wrestler”
Edit: It is my hypothesis that this rumour was fabricated so a case could be made that Aikido has t3h re4l internal bodymechanics (WHATEVER THE HELL THAT MEANS!?)