This is kind of exciting in my opinion, their is a lot BS when it comes to Martial Arts for Police officer.
I am not sure how much better Gracie Survival Tactics is in regards to arrest and control programs, but I would imagine its likely better than most.
I am not sure if it extends to the online instruction or just the in person instruction.
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BJJ is all about submission.
I would suggest a little more nuanced look at that, in that BJJ is all about being in position to get a submission. As submission isn’t always the answer for every situation but being in control largely is.
That proper position for a submissions is almost always being in a controlling/pinning position.
Yes their are sort of “snap” submissions that are grabbed in scrambles but those are not at the core of BJJ, especially the old school BJJ that Gracie University works from.
The term pinning here isn’t so much about having the shoulders pinned to the ground but any sort of control position that limits movement.
So things like rear pins, or leg entanglement pins count.
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The primary thing is cops need to practice what they learn, and what they learn needs to actually have a chance of working.
The Gracies sure know how to grapple and control people, which is a good thing. If the CA POST academy approved of their curriculum, one would assume the experienced cops who usually run those programs had input into the legalities.
Again, training/continuing education is gonna be key.
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Indeed, but how much continuous education do Police officers get now?
I am sure that is going to very some to a lot based on what LEO organization we are talking about among these:
here are some more details but no mention of POST yet:
I would suggest that at least with a BJJ based program, that Officers might have more options for continuous training. Sort of… Maybe… at least a lot of the movements, the invisible JJ, the techniques are going to be similar enough.
The tactics are going to be pretty different depending on the BJJ gym.
While I am a big believer in the situation dictates tactics, I do believe you have to train with a tactical plasticity mindset. So a place that only trains for say IBJJF comp might not encourage that.
Though honestly at the end of the day their are people that are good at shifting context and those that are not.
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I think the amount of continuing education/training is set by the POST academy, and also by individual agencies.
I brought up continuing training, because that’s the larger issue. Patrol cops are usually pretty tired at the end of a 12 hour shift.
The specific LEO training would prob be by instructors certified in the specifics of the Gracie program. Hopefully it’s pretty simple stuff.
Officers training in grappling in general (Judo, BJJ, Sambo, etc.) would be great, but I’d guess not too widespread.
Seem to me that its a take on the normal combative training this is a list for the instructor class lvl 1:
Introductory Lesson
Lesson 1: Base Get-up (w/ Weapon Considerations)
Lesson 2: Trap and Roll Escape (w/ Punch Considerations)
Lesson 3: Americana Armlock (w/ Weapons / Cuffing Considerations)
Lesson 4: Positional Control (w/ Weapon Retention)
Lesson 5: Take the Back (vs. Larger Suspect)
Lesson 6: Vascular Neck Restraint Defenses (vs. Trained Suspect)
Lesson 7: Straight Armlock (w/ Cuffing Transitions)
Lesson 8: Clinch Control (w/ Weapon Retention)
Lesson 9: Body Fold Takedown (w/ Terrain Considerations)
Lesson 10: Guard Punch Block Series (w/ Weapon Retention)
Lesson 11: Guard Get-up (w/ Weapon Retention)
Lesson 12: Twisting Arm Handcuffing Procedure (w/ Handcuffing Considerations)
Lesson 13: Side Mount Positional Control (w/ Weapon Retention)
Lesson 14: Double Underhook Pass (w/ Weapon Retention)
Lesson 15: Triangle Defenses (vs. Trained Suspect)
Lesson 16: Mount Elbow Escape (vs. Trained Suspect)
Lesson 17: Side Mount Shrimp Escape (vs. Trained Suspect)
Lesson 18: Guard Safe Draw (w/ Weapon Considerations)
Lesson 19: Double Leg Takedown (w/ Weapon Considerations)
Lesson 20: Front Headlock Defense (vs. Trained Suspect)
Lesson 21: Headlock Escape (vs. Larger Suspect)
Lesson 22: Hidden Arm Technique (w/ Cuffing Transition)
Lesson 23: Kimura Armlock (w/ Weapon Retention)
Bonus: Tactical Gear Demo (All techniques demonstrated in tactical gear)
Bonus: The 4-Hour GST Training Module (What to teach if you’re limited to four hours)
Teaching 1: Gracie Slice Presentation Formula™ (The secret to creating good instructors)
Teaching 2: Essential Presentation Skills (Turns “good” instructors into “great” instructors)
Teaching 3: Error Correction Strategies (How to teach so cops actually want to learn)
Teaching 4: Support Material (Additional resources to ensure GST success at your agency)
Evaluation Intro
Evaluation 1: Technical Proficiency (Your demonstration of the techniques)
Evaluation 2: Freestyle Fight Simulation (Your demonstration of your reflexes)
Evaluation 3: Slice Presentation Formula (Your demonstration of your teaching skills)
Evaluation 4: Error Correction Strategies (Your demonstration of people skills)
Evaluation 5: Instructor Interview (Our chance to meet you)
Level 2 instructor:
Introductory Lesson
Lesson 1: Twisting Arm Control (w/ Cuffing Transitions)
Lesson 2: Kneeing Control (w/ Cuffing Transitions)
Lesson 3: Advanced Guard Get-up (w/ Weapon Retention)
Lesson 4: Back Mount Escapes (vs. Training Suspect)
Lesson 5: Cross Draw Weapon Retention (w/ Weapon Retention)
Lesson 6: Multiple Officer Arrest Procedure (w/ Handcuffing Transitions)
Lesson 7: Vascular Neck Restraint (w/ Cuffing Transitions)
Lesson 8: Rear Takedown (w/ Weapon Retention)
Lesson 9: Two-Man Takedown (vs. Trained Suspect)
Lesson 10: Wall-Pin Tactics (w/ Weapon Retention)
Lesson 11: Standing Headlock Defenses (vs. Trained Suspect)
Lesson 12: Guillotine Defense (2.0) (vs. Trained Suspect)
Lesson 13: Standing Weapon Retention (vs. Multiple Angles)
Lesson 14: Edged Weapon Defense (vs. Standing & Grounded Suspect)
Lesson 15: Tactical Vehicle Extraction (w/ Cuffing Transitions)
Bonus: Tactical Gear Demo (All techniques demonstrated with tactical gear)
Largely looks to be good stuff for LEO to learn.
The problem though is the likeliness that they are going to drill any of this in the quantity and with the aliveness needed, to develop automaticity especially automaticity in more dynamic positions and positioning is very low.
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That’s a LOT of stuff…
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I took the Gracie combatives for law enforcement cert back years ago when it first came out. The state of Florida sent a bunch of us around the state to do it and then bring it back to our institutions to teach. When we taught the class, it was called advanced ground fighting techniques and was only taught to a select group of people. But the ones who were taught were able to use it immediately. And then after that, everyone else was gradually phased in to some of the techniques in regular Defensive Tactics class.
It was a great program since before that, we had zero ground fighting training other than what people got on their own.
I think this program described above is a little ambitious. I would simplify it down a bit. But it’s a step in the right direction.
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Thank you for your professional, very experienced evaluation and opinion.
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@diesel_tke I would be curious if you know of any data that would show incorporating this into the Defensive tactics classes resulted in better use of force.
Nope, and I can tell you why. Because when a use of force happens it is written up in a very specific way for legal purposes. A lot of the details of the actual use of force is left out because it clutters up the legal lines that are going to have to be defended in court.
Anecdotally I can tell you of many many instances where people were able to use the techniques to help them and in some cases, save their lives. But there is no record of those instances, specifically.
And law enforcement doesn’t like all those details to get out, necessarily.
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Yeah, blow by blow is not the norm.
That makes sense, its also a little unfortunate but of course it is what it is, in my experience is data can lead to better funding. I would imagine that a reduction of use of force it self would improve funding.
Yeah, use of forces are at an all time high around here due to about a decade of budget cuts. It’s pretty pitiful. But I won’t get into it.
#defundpolice and all that jaz.
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Yeah I recall when under policing was considered racist…
I certainly know police being under funded isn’t going to help anything out.
Its certainly not going to lead to good practices of police getting continuous training(in anything).
This is certainly me speaking from on top of mt stupid, but it seems to me that their is training not just grappling that could be refreshed every so often. In particular anti-biasing training.
I have seen some data to suggest, that police trust or bias heavier to the reporting party than the reported on party. That can create problems when you have racist reporters.
Oh yeah, there is tons and tons of stuff that should be done if it were done properly. Starting with more training in the academy. Then hiring twice the amount of people just so that you will have relief personnel so that you can do ongoing training.
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Knowing gracie police combatives won’t reduce UOF.
Might make them “safer” and shorter.
De Escalation/verbal judo etc. can work…but not always by a long shot.
I am sure your correct and this is certainly different but on the margins related, I think back to Jocko talking about this:
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Sure, and that’s kind of a strike (lol) against using impact weapons in a civilian setting. Maybe better grappling skills would help.
And of course, police have a UOF continuum they operate under.
You add in drugs like meth into the equation, and you can hit that MF all you want with an ASP or a flashlight, they don’t even feel it.
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