[SIZE=“4”] Ok, I may be a guy with an axe to grind, I may not, but I studied Taijiquan for 3 years, first at YMAA and then at CCMAA. CCMAA was great, sifu was a wise and capable guy but these kinds of arts take forever to become proficient. As a former Krav Maga student(IDF School in Netanya), I prefer what I am doing now, Wrestling, Muay Thai and BJJ (gi and no gi). I found the Japanese styles to be simplistic and boring, took practically no time to learn these simplistic, angular Kata. The fighers were not so good either, I could beat the JKA certified instructor with ease. Part of it is a classical doctirne v. Reality of Modern Hand to Hand combat. The CMA fighters were a little better but really lacked the conditioning to be effective, and if you take one to ground it is end of game for them…granted I wrestled D1 in college, so my ground game is ok.
I now train MMA and I love it, I sweat, feel my muscles aching and experience that total feeling that comes from a good day’s work. The MMA gym is open from 12:00 to 22:00 every day, totally cool. Each staff member is a trainer, they monitor everyone on the floor and help us out. I love both striking and the ground game, it has made me a physically better conditoned fighter and for more versatile.[/SIZE]
I expect go get flamed for this so do your best. My last time at a Chinese Martial Arts school, a brown belt with black stripes was asking me for self defense tips against a high school wrestler who was bullying him… Flame away.
As a former Krav Maga student(IDF School in Netanya), I prefer what I am doing now, Wrestling, Muay Thai and BJJ (gi and no gi). I found the Japanese styles to be simplistic and boring, took practically no time to learn these simplistic, angular Kata. The fighers were not so good either, I could beat the JKA certified instructor with ease. Part of it is a classical doctirne v. Reality of Modern Hand to Hand combat.
Tell that to a Kyokushin Karate practitioner. You realize fighting should be simplistic I don’t get your point. Actually, I do and it has nothing to do with Taijiquan.
The CMA fighters were a little better but really lacked the conditioning to be effective, and if you take one to ground it is end of game for them…granted I wrestled D1 in college, so my ground game is ok.
Yes, but you studied in how many states against how many CMAers? Still trying to figure out what this has to do with Taijiquan.
I now train MMA and I love it, I sweat, feel my muscles aching and experience that total feeling that comes from a good day’s work. The MMA gym is open from 12:00 to 22:00 every day, totally cool. Each staff member is a trainer, they monitor everyone on the floor and help us out. I love both striking and the ground game, it has made me a physically better conditoned fighter and for more versatile.
So, in other words, you aren’t discussing Tai Chi training. You decided to tell us how much you enjoy MMA and that it is better than JMA and CMA.
Thanks for nothing. There is a forum called YMAS for style vs style discussions. Read the stickies and enjoy trollshido.
:wrestlerb :wrestlerb Ahh…nothing like a few good flames…good deal. I think Tai Chi Quan means “Grand Ultimate Fist” I honestly love watching good CMA stuff, it is pretty and artistic. I still remember the UFC fight w/Jason DeLuca v. Royce Gracie, Deluca threw some fancy spinning back kick, Royce ate the kick, took him down and submitted him by arm bar.
To each his own, and I guess since my first arts were combat arts (Wrestling and Krav Maga), my outlook is more practical. I remember when I would go to my CMA and hit the heavy bag, I invoked fear among the ranked students, probally because they never learned a straigh 1-2-3 (jab, cross, hook) combo.
Taijiquan training may be far beyond my mentality, but that punching from the hip stuff just seemed silly. “Brush knee”, “Cloud Hands”, “High Pat” and others have implementations . The primary thing I got out of it was balance, the concepts of empty and full, which is sort of Yin/Yang. I have actually used “High Pat” and other stuff in submissions from the ground.
Thanks for the flame…I knew this would draw some fire, but I figured on a little more focus on techniqus and training of these things, somethng better than retorts, which is cool. Personally, I still think Taijiquan lacks the physical component, but this is a training issue, not technique. Traditonal CMA Sifus have to evolve in their thinking. I guess my point was obfuscated by my own biases. Then again, the comments were sort of off point, not refutations or clarifications…jeez, I though I was punchy.
“The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle”
It just means “the kind of boxing that uses the concept of ‘tai chi.’” Literal translations generally don’t mean much at all. As English lacks a pithy word for the concept of “tai chi”, we end up with a lot of 'tards more or less mindlessly repeating “Grand Ultimate Fist” over and over, as if that term means something.
I remember when I would go to my CMA and hit the heavy bag, I invoked fear among the ranked students
There were rankings in your tai chi school or was this someplace else?
The primary thing I got out of it was balance, the concepts of empty and full, which is sort of Yin/Yang.
Ah see, you do know what “tai chi” means after all.
There is little more direct than a jab, cross, head lever, knee to the face and an elbow to the neck. reflexive training is always what works first. Taijiquan talks of the 8 steps and energies, all good stuff. Angling off and movement is part of the stuff that creates good fighters, but it is the implementation and training that makes a system or art what it is.
The bullshit of Karate was what gave rise to MMA. I could bore you with my ground and pound of a TKD Black belt, but why bother ? Guess he never learned to sprawl on a double leg takedown.
After spending 7 years in CQB, I guess I have my biases and I honestly believe in the saying “PFW/PFD”. What I was hoping for was some really bright discussion on technique and traing that brings this old internal art into the modern world, I guess that was too much to ask. Sorry all.
Ahh…nothing like a few good flames…good deal. I think Tai Chi Quan means “Grand Ultimate Fist” I honestly love watching good CMA stuff, it is pretty and artistic. I still remember the UFC fight w/Jason DeLuca v. Royce Gracie, Deluca threw some fancy spinning back kick, Royce ate the kick, took him down and submitted him by arm bar.
The spinning back kick exists in various MA’s, (well at least i think thats what you mean- i havent seen the match). The spinning back kick, while not practicle in every situation because it requires you to turn back on your opponent and takes a long enough time so that they can react if they are quick enough, produces a fair bit of power done correctly. Another downside is that after completion you must regain total balance, opening you to takedowns.
I’m sure it has it’s uses, cant blame it on CMA if it was used in an unconventional time and place.
. What I was hoping for was some really bright discussion on technique and traing that brings this old internal art into the modern world, I guess that was too much to ask. Sorry all.
Interesting conversational techniques you have. I mean, I’d like to have a really bright discussion about, oh, family dynamics. To begin with, your mother is a fat whore, your father a worthless old fag who hangs out in bus stations and blows ten year-olds for nickels, and your sister is a filthy rapebucket who has more semen dripping out her asshole than you have in your balls. Is that why you have webbed feet and wall eyes? You know, inbreeding?
I mean, I could bore you with a story about the time I went to your grandma’s house and slapped her around till she shat herself, and baked the turds into brownies to send you for your birthday, but really, I want a serious discussion about the role of the postmodern information economy on family structures.
You weren’t looking for coherent discussion when each post, except your obligatory “I know I will get flamed,” consists of:
I could bore you with my ground and pound of a TKD Black belt
I could beat the JKA certified instructor with ease.
I would go to my CMA and hit the heavy bag, I invoked fear among the ranked students,
This is you bragging about your skills against CMA and JMA.
What I was hoping for was some really bright discussion on technique and traing that brings this old internal art into the modern world, I guess that was too much to ask. Sorry all.
Which, for your information, has been discussed many times.
So, basically, it took you four posts to tell us what you wanted to do right? So instead of telling us of your exploits, training, how strong you are, your philosophy and how great your gym is, you should have started with the above statement.
It wasn’t to much to ask, you need to ask a question first to get an answer.
I guess I understand a little, substantial v. insubstantial, the energies, spine as an axel, waist as a wheel, all sound principles, guess my beef is with the current methods of training. I know few Tai Chi students that could cope with a 1,3,2 combination (jab, hook cross) combination. Peng, Lu, Ji, An, Cai, Lie, Zhou and Kao are universally applicable. Heck, I use chin na stuff in BJJ all the time.
I remember readingthe Tai chi Boxing chronicles several times within my three years of Tai Chi training, the principles are fascinating, I just think the training methods have to be changes. I sort of understand some of the concepts, which is why I started this thread, to help us combine modern situations with these old principles.
You are the first one to get at why I started this thread.
Naw, I’m just an old guy with 38 years of wrestling experience with enough standup skill to get to ground. Yesterday I was sparring with a guy 6’3" 200 solid ( < 8% body fat). He is less than 1/2 my age, stonger and is a much better Kickboxer than I am.
Lucky for him we were wearing 16 ounce gloves or I would’ve bled all over him. In a 5 minute round I managed to score two takedowns and a submission, lucky for me, I was really was getting sick of getting hit in the head. Poor kid, I think he hurt his hand hitting my head so many times.
My first time doing a takedown off a head lever at YMAA (for you Boston guys), the instructor looked over and said, “I guess we need the mats for next week”. I chose the head lever over the guillotine choke just because. I also realized I was playing in the wrong pond, and went back to wrestling at a Russian club. Those guys were great, the coach, Konstantine Kisselev was coach of the USSR Northern Caucasian Army team and a World Class wrestler.
Now I am at an MMA club, BJJ has really expanded my ground game. I had 4 years in the big show, Wrestling in NCAA D1. My primary skill was not store bought, it came through sweat and determination. All I ever had to buy were wrestling shoes and running shoes.
I’ve never heard of this San Da club and how this is related to Tai Chi. At my age, I am happy to still be rolling and having fun. I spar with Muay Thai guys almost daily, and I love the Muay Thai workout, but I am better at the ground game, yesterday I gave away 9", 62 lbs and over 21 years and I got one submission in 5 minutes. Hey I’m happy, he probably was to, I think he was getting tired of hitting my head.
Right, see, the reason this thread was moved from CMA to Trollshido was because the topic wasn’t CMA, but was rather about how rock hard your buttocks and how fast your hands are. Nobody gives two shits about the latter in the CMA forum.