[QUOTE=Devil;2898739]It’s not as easy to convert an AR to full auto as most people think. I hear a lot of talk about “just grind down the sear.” Nope.
There are multiple steps to make an AR into a functional automatic weapon.[/QUOTE]
The trigger group is significantly different, for starters. You’re better off with a bump stock if you’re looking to get automafied. Anything else will be illegal or just plain dangerous for the operator.
https://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/
[QUOTE=submessenger;2898740]The trigger group is significantly different, for starters. You’re better off with a bump stock if you’re looking to get automafied. Anything else will be illegal or just plain dangerous for the operator.
https://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/[/QUOTE]
Agreed.
[QUOTE=submessenger;2898740]The trigger group is significantly different, for starters. You’re better off with a bump stock if you’re looking to get automafied. Anything else will be illegal or just plain dangerous for the operator.
https://www.ar15.com/content/legal/AR15-M16Parts/[/QUOTE]I am eminently aware of the legal ramifications of illegally converting firearms to full auto from semi auto. I have spent the last 10 years training with and shooting a combination of both enough to have satisfied my curiousity on the subject, and have no desire to incur the mandatory penalties for NFA violations. That is why I have no interest in researching the subject. If I wanted a machine gun, I would just plunk down the 20k+ for a registered lower and do the proper paperwork. Bumpfire stocks and TACON style triggers are stupid. The new Fostech echo system seems neat, but is too expensive for me to be interested, and is of questionable utility relative to my current preferred FCG setups.
That said, I’m fairly certain a person of middling intelligence with some machining skill would be able to 3D print a mold for the necessary parts to do a proper conversion. It is old technology and well understood, even for closed bolt systems. Last I checked, some cheaper ar15 FCGs are being made of polymer nowadays. That means it would not be difficult to rapidly prototype and test different FCG designs and gas/buffer setups before one started working with metal fcgs.
[QUOTE=Cassius;2898749]I am eminently aware of the legal ramifications of illegally converting firearms to full auto from semi auto. I have spent the last 10 years training with and shooting a combination of both enough to have satisfied my curiousity on the subject, and have no desire to incur the mandatory penalties for NFA violations. That is why I have no interest in researching the subject. If I wanted a machine gun, I would just plunk down the 20k+ for a registered lower and do the proper paperwork. Bumpfire stocks and TACON style triggers are stupid. The new Fostech echo system seems neat, but is too expensive for me to be interested, and is of questionable utility relative to my current preferred FCG setups.
That said, I’m fairly certain a person of middling intelligence with some machining skill would be able to 3D print a mold for the necessary parts to do a proper conversion. It is old technology and well understood, even for closed bolt systems. Last I checked, some cheaper ar15 FCGs are being made of polymer nowadays. That means it would not be difficult to rapidly prototype and test different FCG designs and gas/buffer setups before one started working with metal fcgs.[/QUOTE]
We’re not talking about you, though, right? We’re talking about a hypothetical mass shooter. If I were such a person (give it time, I’ll probably get there), I would want reliability over rapid discharge. Any such scenario that I enter into, which probably ends with my death, I’m going to do my best to take out as many people as possible that aren’t me. Relying on some beta- hacked- and/or homemade parts doesn’t seem cogent with that goal. And, I’m not going to chance being on some elevated watchlist by legally entering into an NFA arrangement. Although, in retrospect, that would be a good way to do it, once… How many mass shootings have been from legally owned NFA weapons?
Frankly some sort of variation on this seems to be the best way to terrorize people(aside from the cyberwarfare angle or explosives).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks
[QUOTE=goodlun;2898756]Frankly some sort of variation on this seems to be the best way to terrorize people(aside from the cyberwarfare angle or explosives).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks[/QUOTE]
I know a much better way. I’ll keep it to myself.
[QUOTE=Devil;2898758]I know a much better way. I’ll keep it to myself.[/QUOTE]
That is probably for the best.
[QUOTE=submessenger;2898750]We’re not talking about you, though, right? We’re talking about a hypothetical mass shooter. If I were such a person (give it time, I’ll probably get there), I would want reliability over rapid discharge. Any such scenario that I enter into, which probably ends with my death, I’m going to do my best to take out as many people as possible that aren’t me. Relying on some beta- hacked- and/or homemade parts doesn’t seem cogent with that goal. And, I’m not going to chance being on some elevated watchlist by legally entering into an NFA arrangement. Although, in retrospect, that would be a good way to do it, once… How many mass shootings have been from legally owned NFA weapons?[/QUOTE]You quoted my posted and said “you”, so I took it that you were speaking directly to me, which is why I responded in that manner. Now that I’m rereading it, I see you were using the more general “you.” My bad. I certainly have no interest in shooting anyone who doesn’t invade my home or otherwise actively attempt to kill me first, but I took you to be responding to the part where I discussed not wanting to bother with fully automatic weapons in general, not for the purposes of mass shooting.2
As to the question of mass shootings using legally owned NFA weapons, the only one I am aware of is the St. Valentine’s day massacre. In which four people killed seven people. 5 years before the NFA existed. Perhaps there are others, but a quick google search only revealed a bunch of anti-gun tripe.
[QUOTE=Devil;2898739]It’s not as easy to convert an AR to full auto as most people think. I hear a lot of talk about “just grind down the sear” or “just grind down the disconnector.” Nope.
There are multiple steps to make an AR into a functional automatic weapon.[/QUOTE]
The cnc patterns for a lightning link aren’t that hard to find…
[QUOTE=ghost55;2898798]The cnc patterns for a lightning link aren’t that hard to find…[/QUOTE]
Anything can be made if you have the equipment and the know how. I could build a Gatling gun if I wanted to. Hell, that would even be legal.
When you start talking about fabricating parts from steel, you’ve left the realm of a simple modification.
[QUOTE=Devil;2898802]Anything can be made if you have the equipment and the know how. I could build a Gatling gun if I wanted to. Hell, that would even be legal.
When you start talking about fabricating parts from steel, you’ve left the realm of a simple modification.[/QUOTE]
lightning links are not exactly complicated, but working steel is hard. Making an ak full fun is a lot easier for what it’s worth. It can be done poorly with a twist tie. Or fuck, you can buy an HK sear host gun and a full auto trigger pack easily enough. Just putting them together is really illegal. Or really even owning both is a good way to summon the dog shooters.
[QUOTE=ghost55;2898803]lightning links are not exactly complicated, but working steel is hard. Making an ak full fun is a lot easier for what it’s worth. It can be done poorly with a twist tie. Or fuck, you can buy an HK sear host gun and a full auto trigger pack easily enough. Just putting them together is really illegal. Or really even owning both is a good way to summon the dog shooters.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the education. I didn’t learn how to make machine guns with twist ties in gunsmithing school.
[QUOTE=ghost55;2898798]The cnc patterns for a lightning link aren’t that hard to find…[/QUOTE]
I have an AS in CAD/CAM called Machine Technologies. I know a thing or two about CNC machines.
One thing I will tell you while not terribly difficult to run a CNC machine if someone else does all the tool pathing for you it, does take some skill to write good clean school. A 3d model by itself isn’t what you put into a CNC machine. You need to either have a CAM program that you have to have some knowledge of or you have to manually write the G&M code.
A lot of times this code is going to be machine specific.
while you might be able to cut a lighting link on a bench top mill even those are not all that cheap. It not like you are going to walk into a machine shop with a lighting link model and be like please make this for me.
[QUOTE=Devil;2898806]Thanks for the education. I didn’t learn how to make machine guns with twist ties in gunsmithing school.[/QUOTE]
I mean it’s AK specific and likely will cause serious timing issues leading to stoppages, but it should work in theory. You’re better off getting a parts kit with a full fun fcg and drilling that third hole.
Yeah, that thing would be easy to make for anybody who knows machining. And has a mill, like goodlun said.
It’s just silly to insert part fabrication into a discussion about “simple mods.” Most people don’t have the knowledge or skill to make jack shit out of steel, especially when it’s a part that will probably need to be properly hardened.
[QUOTE=ghost55;2898812]I mean it’s AK specific and likely will cause serious timing issues leading to stoppages, but it should work in theory. You’re better off getting a parts kit with a full fun fcg and drilling that third hole.[/QUOTE]
Or you could just kill a cop and take what’s in his trunk.
[QUOTE=Devil;2898813]Yeah, that thing would be easy to make for anybody who knows machining. And has a mill, like goodlun said.
It’s just silly to insert part fabrication into a discussion about “simple mods.” Most people don’t have the knowledge or skill to make jack shit out of steel, especially when it’s a part that will probably need to be properly hardened.[/QUOTE]
This is honestly fair. Most nut jobs don’t have useful knowledge in this vein.
[QUOTE=Devil;2898814]Or you could just kill a cop and take what’s in his trunk.[/QUOTE]
I still prefer my “just get a full auto HK FCG”. Because the MP5 is the coolest shit ever.
[QUOTE=Devil;2898814]Or you could just kill a cop and take what’s in his trunk.[/QUOTE]
How heavily armed are most beat cops? I know that swat teams have moved heavily towards the AR-15.
I think your best bet would be to hit up a national guard or reservist armory.
[QUOTE=goodlun;2898816]How heavily armed are most beat cops? I know that swat teams have moved heavily towards the AR-15.
I think your best bet would be to hit up a national guard or reservist armory.[/QUOTE]
All the cops I know roll around with more shit than most Marines take into combat. I’m sure it varies from place to place but the days of Officer Friendly are over.
[QUOTE=Devil;2898817]All the cops I know roll around with more shit than most Marines take into combat. I’m sure it varies from place to place but the days of Officer Friendly are over.[/QUOTE]
I know that up until recently Portland Police officers could carry MP5’s in a cage near the front passenger seat. I think they’ve switched to full fun ARs. Real shame. Can’t HK slap an AR into battery. I like HK guns. If I ever win the lottery first thing I’m buying is a transferable flemming autosear and a pile of host guns.