[QUOTE=BackFistMonkey;2890973]So at this point it is a state to state thing … no real cred requirements to qualify as an instructor that I can really find.
I haven’t been able to find a syllabus that didn’t look like it had a jagged razor sharp convex DNA collectors built into it… well that’s not true I have seen some 5 points of shooting here is your cert courses.
Wait … or is it a City or County thing…[/QUOTE]
The NRA instructor cert. Is the general standard.
I’d advise to go and observe a class that anyone is teaching, just like you (should) for other martial arts training. Of course, if the person seeking CCW training has very little to zero experience with firearms, they are not going to know what to look for.
For example, my kids and I were out at the gun range one day. I was sighting in my muzzle loading rifle for a special elk season that was coming up. Another guy was their sighting in his muzzle loader for the same season. I’d seen him around before (this is a small community). My kids were shooting their .22 rifles.
He made several mistakes handling the muzzle loader that I noted to myself. Nothing like pointing it at me or my kids, but, mistakes.
He had been watching my kids, and gave me his card as a local firearms instructor…
Thanks but no thanks.
[QUOTE=BackFistMonkey;2890973]So at this point it is a state to state thing … no real cred requirements to qualify as an instructor that I can really find.
I haven’t been able to find a syllabus that didn’t look like it had a jagged razor sharp convex DNA collectors built into it… well that’s not true I have seen some 5 points of shooting here is your cert courses.
Wait … or is it a City or County thing…[/QUOTE]
The NRA has good instruction courses from what I can see. One can usually find some sort of NRA training in their area, from basic to more advanced.
[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2890974]Gun site, https://www.gunsite.com , is supposed to be good. Plus there are a whole host of retired professional killers (seals,delta,recon)that teach now.
[video=youtube_share;DTuFNy8NtuA]http://youtu.be/DTuFNy8NtuA[/video][/QUOTE]
Another good one…
Before I applied for my CC I took a course offered by the local Community College as part of their Criminal Justice program. It was taught by the special weapons and tactics instructor of the local Sheriff’s department.
[QUOTE=BKR;2890977]I’d advise to go and observe a class that anyone is teaching, just like you (should) for other martial arts training. Of course, if the person seeking CCW training has very little to zero experience with firearms, they are not going to know what to look for.[/QUOTE]
Down here, CCW classes are one or two hours, tops. You can’t audit. You either take it, or you don’t. It’s (woefully) not a form of higher education, it’s a hole in your ticket that needs punched so you can legally carry.
Ongoing and/or tactical instruction is a whole different animal. I know that’s not what you’re talking about, but it’s worth saying. Those courses can last weeks or months, so dropping by for a sample class would be in the realm of possibility.
OP is on about failures in the basics, these one or two hour courses. As much as I hate the idea of gun control, having reasonable standards for basic instruction seems like a really good idea.
As far as military training, I remember we used to hear a couple of times a year about new NDs during watch turnovers. Thus, even the military doesn’t get it right when it comes to basics. Probably different in Marines/Army, but Navy, it was basically a one-day class during basic. Subsequent qualifications were not subjected to that same rigor, in my memory. This probably varied widely based on MOS/rate post-basic; a GM or MA would be expected to have regular arms training, others - not so much. I was lucky to get into a position where I qual’d on Mossberg and M16, and the safety parts of those trainings were taken as read.
[QUOTE=submessenger;2890983]Down here, CCW classes are one or two hours, tops. You can’t audit. You either take it, or you don’t. It’s (woefully) not a form of higher education, it’s a hole in your ticket that needs punched so you can legally carry.
Ongoing and/or tactical instruction is a whole different animal. I know that’s not what you’re talking about, but it’s worth saying. Those courses can last weeks or months, so dropping by for a sample class would be in the realm of possibility.
OP is on about failures in the basics, these one or two hour courses. As much as I hate the idea of gun control, having reasonable standards for basic instruction seems like a really good idea.
As far as military training, I remember we used to hear a couple of times a year about new NDs during watch turnovers. Thus, even the military doesn’t get it right when it comes to basics. Probably different in Marines/Army, but Navy, it was basically a one-day class during basic. Subsequent qualifications were not subjected to that same rigor, in my memory. This probably varied widely based on MOS/rate post-basic; a GM or MA would be expected to have regular arms training, others - not so much. I was lucky to get into a position where I qual’d on Mossberg and M16, and the safety parts of those trainings were taken as read.[/QUOTE]
I’ve hunted and been shooting with military (ex and active) that were excellent at firearms safety, handling, shooting. Others, not so much…
The basic courses are available via the NRA, or reputable private academies, depending on what one has to spend. Any skill is perishable. Taking on 2 hour course,then locking a .38 snubby in a drawer isn’t going to result in very good shooting or safety skills.
Of course, that’s an argument for requiring ongoing training and certification, which costs money and time. Not something less financially fortunate people have…
[QUOTE=Devil;2890956]I want a concealed carry instructor with a law enforcement background or a background in criminal law. In my opinion, the legal portion of the self defense curriculum is the most important. But then again, I was already proficient with firearms when I took the course so that didn’t matter much to me. I wanted to know how to stay out of prison while increasing my personal safety.
If it’s a cop teaching the class I want an experienced one. Not some rookie.[/QUOTE]An added plus is having an instructor who has a working understanding of civil litigation and protection from said litigation in your area related to self defense with firearms. While I would rather be sued into the poorhouse by some asshole’s family than die, it is always good to have an understanding of what “else” can happen after a defensive gun use in your state. Again, not as absolutely necessary as having an instructor versed in criminal law, but it is definitely a nice to have.
Thankfully, Maryland is good and progressive, so no real danger of being burdened with a concealed carry permit 'round these parts.
[QUOTE=Devil;2890956]I want a concealed carry instructor with a law enforcement background or a background in criminal law. In my opinion, the legal portion of the self defense curriculum is the most important. But then again, I was already proficient with firearms when I took the course so that didn’t matter much to me. I wanted to know how to stay out of prison while increasing my personal safety.
If it’s a cop teaching the class I want an experienced one. Not some rookie.[/QUOTE]
I think this is one of the most important things.
If you’re carrying around civilians, or in this case other citizens who might not know that you are carrying it’s not so much about how you draw but when and if you should.
You could be a pistol ninja but if you mag off on people and the law disagrees with you it’s going to be a bad day out.
[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2890971]i would like to gather the names of known to be legit training centers, i’m not all that far from the sig academy in the grand scheme of things, so i have considered going there. any other suggestions?[/QUOTE]
Lokke, look up MDTS Training. He is based in Utica but does classes out on Long Island quite a bit. I have done some knife classes and my buddy has been doing his handgun/shotgun/tactical carbine courses. He’s a great guy and an awesome instructor.
[QUOTE=DarkPhoenix;2891059]Lokke, look up MDTS Training. He is based in Utica but does classes out on Long Island quite a bit. I have done some knife classes and my buddy has been doing his handgun/shotgun/tactical carbine courses. He’s a great guy and an awesome instructor.[/QUOTE]
Yes. I’ve known Chris for about a decade, he is a solid guy and a great instructor.