That thread is the entire reason why I don’t browse the Judo forum anymore.
The thread is fucking stupid the questioning of BJJ terminology should have stopped once it was established what it refered to and that Judo doesn’t have a name for it.
It just takes far too long to write out a meaningful description of the Butterfly guard position, which is the normal option for positions which aren’t named in Judo.
There’s no reason to use BJJ terminology on a Judo forum when Judo has a name for it, but if Judo does’t have a name for it and it is explained with pictures what the BJJ term means then use it.
The problem with the issue was people on both sides of the debate kept plugging away at each other instead of just getting on with things.
The more I read the thread, the more I like it.
I love how it somehow got into modern kids doing judo having an over inflated sense of entitlement, and how the people who got their dan ranks in the 70s being the real men.
Didn’t I already address this crap in the Judo Ne Waza thread?
There’s a difference between something not having an official name, and trying to shut down a discussion of one of these things.
Not on the internet.
Somewhere in that mass of prognosticating someone suggested that if you want to discuss “non judo” grappling techniques you should do it in their other martial arts grappling sub forum. So I did
http://judoforum.com/index.php?/topic/49112-butterfly-guard-in-judo/
Seems they don’t have much to say yet about actually using butterfly guard.
[quote=judoka_uk;2461443]
There’s no reason to use BJJ terminology on a Judo forum when Judo has a name for it, but if Judo does’t have a name for it and it is explained with pictures what the BJJ term means then use it.[/quote]After much idiocy CK explained why he things it shouldn’t have a name, which is that from his perspective it’s just a position half-way through an attack. Like the point where you’ve got uke on your back in a seoi nage doesn’t really have a name, it’s not somewhere you hang about or ‘play’. However, if those attacks also don’t have a name then I still don’t get how the hell you’re meant to talk about it…
SODO on the other hand sets my fucking teeth on edge.
Butterfly in Judo: It’s going to happen in randori much more often than shiai, you shouldn’t seek it out, but if you fall on your bum it may make a better option than locking shit down with a closed guard. Anything else?
What about X-guard or delahiva? I can’t do either of them for shit, but I have had randori situations where I used them to claw myself back into a pin after making a spectacular fuckup that left me on my back and my partner standing. Would it get me in trouble in shai? (It could be seen as dragging your opponent down.)
If your opponent stands up isn’t that matte?
It’s not quite the same though. You’d never go to a position where uke is on your back and then think about what to do.
With butterfly guard (or more likely half butterfly), you can find yourself there because you’ve just escaped some pin. Your main objective is stopping the osokomi, it happens to end in a position where you can do a sweep. There are several ways you can end up in the position, there are several things you can do once you’re there. It needs a name.
Yes, but I was thinking of the situations where either you’ve fallen and he hasn’t, or if you catch him as he’s trying to stand.
[quote=CrackFox;2461485]
With butterfly guard (or more likely half butterfly), you can find yourself there because you’ve just escaped some pin. Your main objective is stopping the osokomi, it happens to end in a position where you can do a sweep. There are several ways you can end up in the position, there are several things you can do once you’re there. It needs a name.[/quote]Similarly there’s a point where you can carry on your seoi-nage or switch to ko-uchi-gari, but that doesn’t have a name. If you’re thinking of everything in terms of combination attacks, and for Judo newaza in competition that’s the only way to avoid getting stood up, I can kind of understand his point. If those attacks themselves are nameless, though, you’re still left with a bit of a terminology gap.
May I humbly submit the point that WHO GIVES A FUCK. Just fight, goddammit.
Well from what I have seen there’s a communication problem from all sides. After studying SAMBO for years I can tell you that it’s quite laughable. SAMBO uses terms like “This one”…“Or this one”…“Grip this way”.
You say poTAYto, I say poTAHto. When I’m in the dojo, I’m used to naming pretty much everything apart from the throws this way, especially the turnovers. You’re right beside person, you can use actions to demonstrate what you’re talking about. On the net, I generally use whatever term gets my point across.
They already went over why they don’t do this in Judo. Just let it go already.
Oh I cross reference everything and name all the maneuvers. This is why I find it funny when BJJ comes across like it came up with the name for everything.
[quote=Lindz;2461475]Somewhere in that mass of prognosticating someone suggested that if you want to discuss “non judo” grappling techniques you should do it in their other martial arts grappling sub forum.[/quote]But it isn’t “non-Judo”… it’s just that certain people refuse to adapt their nomenclature in some knee jerk reaction, probably born from insecurity about BJJ (there I fucking said it).