Collective project -Wing Chun Article content

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Why Wing Chun Sucks ?

Ok… with a few posts recently about Wing Chun, I’d like to ask for a collective pool of effort from you all in putting together an article which will be hosted on the Wiki and as a skicky somewhere on this site so…

Here’s what I need:

For you good people to search for Chun and related threads (present and old) and firstly, copy paste the thread URL into a reply to this post and secondly, quote a number of relevent statements (min of 1) from those threads from people. so it would look like:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=47806

Wing chun sucks. Do searches on it. There’ve been tons and tons of threads dedicated to how much wing chun sucks. (This also applies to wing tsun, wing tzun, ving tsun, etc.)

I did wing chun for two years before quitting. RunningDog and others have had similiar experiences. It sucks.

As a general rule, fat people use more soap.

There is a big difference between style bashing and expressing an opinion in a brusque manner.

Ok so you get the idea… Serious and or comedic comment all acceptable however, please don’t quote with images - just text.

When I’ve got what I feel is enough, I’ll then collate and edit together a sticky and an Wiki entry.

Thanks for your help.

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Wing Chun sucks because of it’s practitioners insistence on its effectiveness without consistent results; not to mention all the bogus claims without substantiated evidence:

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Rock Ape - for clarification, the goal of this project is to provide a concise reference of the real reasons why one should avoid _in _un, or at least have reasonable expectations about it? Or, are we trying to come up with a list of the silly reasons why? Or is it both?

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A picture is worth a thousand words. A video is worth some similar proportion of pictures.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/vbtube_show.php?do=tube&tubeid=528#watch

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As someone who studied the Chun for two years its weaknesses are as follows:

  1. Very limited, and linear footwork. Much less mobility then in boxing. In a real fight most people will be unable to keep their weight uniformlly over their back foot as recommended and once the standard stance goes, so do the applicability of many of the techniques.

  2. Because of the emphasis on the eye jab, and the use of trapping, Wing Chun people generally do not glove up and do full contact sparring. The result is much “air punching” and the inability to continue to hit with power, once your fists actually start making contact with your opponent.

  3. The time spent of two hands practice. I’m forgetting the name Chia Sau? Real people do not fight like that in the West, so you are never going to get a “feed” similar to what you are learning in class making this material useless. Similarly very few people actually get to trap in a real fight, and if they do, perhaps it happens once on the way in. Its highly overemphasized.

  4. Once someone grabs you, as in judo or wrestling, then the WC techniques generally cannot be applied, and you end up on the ground very quickly.

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Do you want videos of chunners getting whooped up on as well? Because I can think of at least two chunners I’ve tko’d on tape.

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[QUOTE=Sam Browning;2632900]As someone who studied the Chun for two years its weaknesses are as follows:

  1. The time spent of two hands practice. I’m forgetting the name Chia Sau? Real people do not fight like that in the West, so you are never going to get a “feed” similar to what you are learning in class making this material useless. Similarly very few people actually get to trap in a real fight, and if they do, perhaps it happens once on the way in. Its highly overemphasized.

.[/QUOTE]

 Chi Sao , " Sticking Hands" decent sensitivy exercise but of limited utility in application.
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I use wing chun during some of my mma sparring but I have never been deluded enough to believe that chun was the mecca of martial arts.

See if you can spot it:

//youtu.be/ecyJJLTPJwQ

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Here’s my take for what its worth.
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92248

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Hahaha I can’t wait. When you guys are done, I’m going to replace everything with aikido and it will be almost exactly the same. That way we can kill two article at the same time.

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[QUOTE=It is Fake;2633148]Hahaha I can’t wait. When you guys are done, I’m going to replace everything with aikido and it will be almost exactly the same. That way we can kill two article at the same time.[/QUOTE]LMFAO you baaaad man… However, I have a number of projects like this and Aikido is on that list, had there not been a recent speight of Chun posts, Aikido would most likely have been the first.

[QUOTE=daddykata;2632746]Rock Ape - for clarification, the goal of this project is to provide a concise reference of the real reasons why one should avoid _in _un, or at least have reasonable expectations about it? Or, are we trying to come up with a list of the silly reasons why? Or is it both?[/QUOTE]The sticky post will be comedic with a serious point to be made which will point to the wiki article which will be of serious content…

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A sticky is fine the wiki is my issue. I’ve argued before there are elements of the chun that are fine. There are things that work well. It is the shitty ass instruction and the focus on theory as opposed to ding that hurts a large majority of chunners.

Judo is great in and of itself.’
BJJ is great in and of itself.
Why?

Because they “do.”

Somewhere, as with a ton of CMA, they stopped “doing” and started theorizing. That’s why Sanda and Sanshou don’t “look like kung fu” to the layman practitioner.

That’s why chun looks great in demos and looks like mediocre kickboxing in competition.

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Man, I hope we can find the original article linked to from this thread:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10239&page=1

[QUOTE=Pojac;247910]Apparently, in some schools Wing Chun goes beyond the laws of physics. This isn’t meant to be a dig at Wing Chun in general, just at anyone who doesn’t believe that force equals mass times acceleration. http://www.wingchun.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1637[/QUOTE]

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http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83798&page=2
A classic thread by Wingchunx2z
full-contact sparring =/= happy slappy bullshit
[QUOTE=jnp;2101763]^Yes. You say you are training to fight in a confined space. During sparring, you stepped back off the table when he drove forward. What happens when you are actually in a confined space during a fight? You will be unable to step back.

Which begs the question, how useful is an open circle on the floor as a training aid in your favored training scenario?[/QUOTE]

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Man, this is addictive.

[QUOTE=mesar;2625824]open minded enough to learn Muay Thai. Though if my friend starts teaching me, he’s gonna want to wrap a post in boat rope. That’ll cost me. Maybe just get a metal post and wrap it. cheaper than wood. Thats what my Wing Chun instructor does, but he doesn’t hang it, he puts it in the ground.
I got the heavy bag, mits, guess might as well start having him pound me. We have a Wing Chun student that learned Muay Thai in Thailand that could join, although he hasn’t done it in years.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=It is Fake;2125262]No, it isn’t.

Seriously, I’m getting tired of semantic battles. If you don’t get it ask.

I mean, if we are going to get technical, Cung does VMA in CMA rule sets.

This guy reminds me of Kamon Wing Chun. They train with boxers, their instructor is a BJJ Black Belt and they used to argue that they were doing chun. They still say it but they admit theyuse boxing to spar.

It is a hybrid IMO. There is nothing wrong with that and you can call it chun.

My implication is, saying this is good wing chun is like discounting all of Cung Le’s other training and saying it is purely kung fu.

Not less but, in the proper perspective. You know so people understand what they are looking at. Do, I see elements of chun in that video? Yes.

I also see boxing bobbing and weaving, I also see a boxing/JKD hybrid guard, and a boxing drill.

To put it simply, if someone states, I want to do what Cung Le does, I’d send them to a CMA Sanda Sanshou based school, then explain his entire background.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Permalost;2571626]“Why should we work on perfecting wrestling style takedowns, when they’re ineffective, easy to counter, and put you on the ground on the street (his buddies are gonna stomp on you!). If someone manages to get past my low kicks AND chain punches AND elbows, then they’re gonna lose when I gouge their eye out and rip off their groin. They don’t train or know how to counter such tactics. Woe is the grappler that attacks a chunner.”

Basically, it’s that repeated by lots of angry noobs. Or you have the occasional chunner apologist who thinks that it’s a good art if you cross train. Apparently it fits in the range between striking and the clinch, and only exists for a split second like some kind of hedron collider craziness.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=hairy;2312961]Do you attend the Wing Tsun Parramatta class? If not which school do you attend?

Does your sparring involve actually hitting the person or simulating a hit i.e. lovingly caressing your partners face?
In my entire 6 months there, we had ONE “sparring” session. I’ve been hit harder by a woman sparring lightly in kickboxing. Little to no contact was involved, a big circle was formed where random people would attack one guy in the middle… haymakers and sloppy “muay thai” kicks where thrown while the guy in the middle did his/her 15 hit blitz defense combo.

Classes were about 100 a month which allowed me to attend 2 classes a week, 60-70 fee per month lets you attend 1 class a week as I recall. Membership cost about 100? or something I got charged twice because apparently when you quit they don’t cancel your Wing Tsun association membership. Plus I got charged for 2 months after I quit. So lets see… (100x6) + (100x2) + (100x2) = $1000… yep 1000 seems about right

The review was written nearly 2 years ago. There maybe have been some changes. The current timetable states 1 1/2 hours for normal classes, and 1 hour for Anti-Grappling classes.

And I did have a cup.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=kowloonboy;2536050]Could you point me the link, as I don’t understand why Wing Chun should not be in the ADVANCED striking forum? Are you telling me that Wing Chun is not a advanced striking art?[/QUOTE]

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You know you just implied that permalost, Hairy and I made some ridiculous wing chun comments.

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[QUOTE=It is Fake;2633360]You know you just implied that permalost, Hairy and I made some ridiculous wing chun comments.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, my bad… it’s why I tried to clarify early if we were doing comedy, or serious, or both. The discerning among us can tell the difference, and I’m sure that Rock Ape will edit appropriately.

(edit: fixed)

[QUOTE=shaolin pimp;2295975]As an ex chunner myself, I have to say even with the above, which was the standard at my school, I think the system is flawed! No doubt there’s real schools that fight/spar/alive training, but the system is where the problem lies.

A big thing is which was pointed out to me by bullshido members numerous times is, you can change the footwork - more like thai/mma, add boxing punches, takedown defense! well why not learn the other arts that teach it better, and can you call it wing chun anymore, if add these.

I think the system (wing chun the original version) needs adapted if it’s possible, they need to train it as a combat sport, only then can they know if it can work or not![/QUOTE]

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Culled

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There should be videos here of me sparring Deadlyvenom7 at the NJTD. They were all chun guys.

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I thought they all kicked your ass?
snicker