[QUOTE=Mor Sao;2814812]0 people are killed by acupuncture annually. 0
over 150,000 people die annually in Hospitals under the supposed care of medical doctors.
That is the point.
I kill 0 people are MDs kills thousands with drugs and other botched up crap.
That is the plain truth and very few want to listen. You cannot talk around the stats.
But I am defrauding and conning people and the MDs are the REalZ?
Glue sniffing and hiding heads in the sand.[/QUOTE]
If you say that acupuncture is the shit, and tested drugs are botched up crap, you are the one that sniffed too much glue…Not only you are a fraud, you are also a hypocrite, using pubmed for articles to “support” your pseudo/placebo bull-crap “treatments”, trying to make them look scientific but than go calling the science that was actually published there as crap…
Dude people are dying in hospitals because we have a lot to learn, and also because people die. Herbs and Chinese medicine will do much worst. The fact that the majority of pro-acupancture articles were done by chinese people who are infamous for their dodgy science results does not phase you i see.
I think this will brilliantly sum up what i think of your horse shit.
A small effect, even a statistically significant one which can technically reject the null hypothesis does not mean there IS an effect.
It is possible that there are other factors the study didn’t take into consideration (e.g maybe the people doing real acupuncture were nicer to the patients and so they felt better).
It is possible that the studies were not well designed and so the results are unreliable (You yourself admitted that research in this area was challenging due to the problems with double blinding).
It is possible that the small effect is attributable to bias. As you said:
“That’s the thing about bias. You do studies until you get rid of as much as possible. And a lot of bias has been removed from these studies, and there still might be more.”
Looking at multiple studies in a meta analysis fashion helps remove bias, but there may and likely is still some left. Maybe only a small bit, but well, there was only a small result…
[QUOTE=erezb;2815007]The fact that the majority of pro-acupancture articles were done by chinese people who are infamous for their dodgy science results does not phase you i see.
[/QUOTE]
That’s the real elephant in the room. Chinese culture does not value honesty as highly as western culture. Maintaining the cultural narrative and saving face are much more important than truth and that certainly plays some role in the “scientific” findings about traditional Chinese medicine.
[QUOTE=kamadul;2815017]That’s the real elephant in the room. Chinese culture does not value honesty as highly as western culture. Maintaining the cultural narrative and saving face are much more important than truth and that certainly plays some role in the “scientific” findings about traditional Chinese medicine.[/QUOTE]
Your logic is flawed, probably because you’re agreeing with Erezb, a bigot and Bullshido’s Village Idiot.
You contend that since Asia has used acupuncture for thousands of years, and most of the early studies came out of Asian universities, acupuncture is a dishonest cultural narrative? Even though this cultural bias is completely unavoidable.
And, all the non-Asian universities and non-Asian doctors involved in the best CAM research, like Sloan Kettering Memorial in NEW YORK CITY, USA, are really kowtowing to Asian culture?
Did you just put the term “scientific” in quotes describing legitimate clinical research, right after creating a conspiracy theory?
[QUOTE=erezb;2815007]If you say that acupuncture is the shit, and tested drugs are botched up crap, you are the one that sniffed too much glue…
[/quote]
Who said acupuncture is “the shit”? Nobody.
[QUOTE=erezb;2815007]
Not only you are a fraud, you are also a hypocrite, using pubmed for articles to “support” your pseudo/placebo bull-crap “treatments”, trying to make them look scientific but than go calling the science that was actually published there as crap…
[/quote]
Another deluded rant by Erezb. And calling someone a “fraud” is not cute, especially given Dale has a license.
I have just officially placed you in the same bucket as Thomas Daw, Erezb. Good luck trying to change my mind.
[QUOTE=erezb;2815007]
Dude people are dying in hospitals because we have a lot to learn, and also because people die. Herbs and Chinese medicine will do much worst. The fact that the majority of pro-acupancture articles were done by chinese people who are infamous for their dodgy science results does not phase you i see.
[/quote]
Which Chinese people are infamous for their dodgy science, exactly? What are “pro acupuncture articles”? Did you mean studies? Then no, the reason most studies are Asian is because CAM comes from Asia, idiot.
Stop being such a goddamn Bigot.
You know who is famous for being dodgy and dishonest? You.
[QUOTE=erezb;2815007]
I think this will brilliantly sum up what i think of your horse shit.
[/QUOTE]
Your avatar sums up what I and most of Bullshido thinks of your horse shit.
You all just threw in the towel, argument-wise. Science, forget about it. You blew it.
Erezb claims “Dale is Fake, Acupuncture fake. Asians lie!”.
Kamadul agrees and hedges further: “The Chinese are dishonest and unscientific”
1point2 agreed with Kamadul
No wonder your bias against CAM is so extreme, fellas!
You’re racist bigots: You don’t associate CAM with US doctors at all; you associate it with Asians.
That’s fucked up.
Why don’t you pull your heads out of your asses and contribute to the discussion, instead of being ignorant.
Did you forget this was Bullshido? We value science and logic here (or so I thought), not half-assed assertions based on your own screwed-up cultural biases.
I love all the mouthboxers and closet racists and bigots who snipe and slander someone who tries to help his fellow human beings.
Disgusting to see such actions from supposed human beings. But then trolls and mouthboxers have proven themselves to be subhuman and most are not worthy of the air they breathe. They contribute nothing but hatespeech and drama versus actually giving a damn about something and trying to make a difference in this realm of reality.
I am not a fraud.
Nor am I a charlatan.
I am a Doctor of Oriental Medicine(DOM) as well as being a licensed Acupuncture Physician.
I have the documentation to prove it.
Anyone saying otherwise is lying and needs to be banned. Why let mouthboxers get away with slander and libel?
[QUOTE=It is Fake;2815056]Well Erezb, simply put, back up your claim of Dale being a fraud prove it, retract it or get a temp ban.
Oh and If you do your typical, “IiF you are a hypocrite in rule application,” I will prove you utterly wrong about frauds and permanently ban you.[/QUOTE]
I say remove them. we need less of these mental midgets around.
Racism? I have no problem with Chinese Americans. I do have problems with most Chinese nationals. It’s not the race, it’s the culture.
I find it funny that the ones swearing by ancient Chinese magic and mysticism don’t even understand a very basic difference between Chinese and Western culture. Chinese culture places much less value on honesty than western. That’s not racist, it’s just statement of fact. These little emotional tirades and accusing people of racism because they understand something about Chinese culture that you do not is complete bullshit.
[QUOTE=kamadul;2815086]
I find it funny that the ones swearing by ancient Chinese magic and mysticism[/QUOTE]
and you just lost the thread
thank you for playing
[QUOTE=kamadul;2815086]Racism? I have no problem with Chinese Americans. I do have problems with most Chinese nationals. It’s not the race, it’s the culture.[/QUOTE]Sorry, YOU forgot, “RACISM” is a bad word rabbit. You must be pedantic, they are being PREJUDICED.
[QUOTE=kamadul;2815086]Racism? I have no problem with Chinese Americans. I do have problems with most Chinese nationals. It’s not the race, it’s the culture.
I find it funny that the ones swearing by ancient Chinese magic and mysticism don’t even understand a very basic difference between Chinese and Western culture. Chinese culture places much less value on honesty than western. That’s not racist, it’s just statement of fact. These little emotional tirades and accusing people of racism because they understand something about Chinese culture that you do not is complete bullshit.
[QUOTE=Permalost;2815095]Is this Chinese lying thing an ancient Chinese thing, though? The article here sorta suggests that its a post-communism materialist China thing, centuries after the invention of acupuncture.[/QUOTE]
The studies they are using for proof of acupuncture’s effectiveness are also modern.
[QUOTE=It is Fake;2815094]Sorry, YOU forgot, “RACISM” is a bad word rabbit. You must be pedantic, they are being PREJUDICED.[/QUOTE]
My bias is no stronger than yours. It’s merely in the other direction. And no, there is nothing here to lose either. These arguments are being made by people a helluva lot more involved than any of us. Our only role is to choose what camp we are in.
[QUOTE=kamadul;2815096]The studies they are using for proof of acupuncture’s effectiveness are also modern.[/QUOTE]
Modern studies don’t change how do acupuncture though, nor does the modern social etiquette of mainland China if its a modern conception, thus my question.
[QUOTE=kamadul;2815086]Racism? I have no problem with Chinese Americans. I do have problems with most Chinese nationals. It’s not the race, it’s the culture.
[/quote]
Who the fuck said anything about Chinese Americans???
[QUOTE=kamadul;2815086]
I find it funny that the ones swearing by ancient Chinese magic and mysticism don’t even understand a very basic difference between Chinese and Western culture.
[/quote]
It’s ironic you are a complete non-expert on both Chinese culture AND acupuncture BUT continue to hedge your weak ass arguments, especially now that you’ve gone full retard.
So you’re not culturally biased against Asians, you’re POLITICALLY biased?
[QUOTE=kamadul;2815086]
Chinese culture places much less value on honesty than western. That’s not racist, it’s just statement of fact.
[/quote]
Source your “fact” or get the fuck off Bullshido.
[QUOTE=kamadul;2815086]
These little emotional tirades and accusing people of racism
[/quote]
Your statements are overtly prejudiced. That’s a “fact” of casual observation.
Your arguments in this thread are now all invalid.
[QUOTE=kamadul;2815096]And no, there is nothing here to lose either. These arguments are being made by people a helluva lot more involved than any of us. Our only role is to choose what camp we are in.[/QUOTE]
There is plenty to lose like whether or not your opinion is worth a damn to even to be bother to read what you may have expounded on.
No, your only role is not to choose what camp you are in. If there is a debate going on by people that know what the fuck they are talking about, your only role is to sit on the sidelines and listen, not make a fucking bigoted remark about a nation of people.
[QUOTE=catfishaggie;2815115]There is plenty to lose like whether or not your opinion is worth a damn to even to be bother to read what you may have expounded on.
No, your only role is not to choose what camp you are in. If there is a debate going on by people that know what the fuck they are talking about, your only role is to sit on the sidelines and listen, not make a fucking bigoted remark about a nation of people.[/QUOTE]
It’s not a bigoted remark, it’s a statement of fact. If you do not understand the difference in the way truth is valued between the two cultures you don’t have any business opening your mouth about this topic.
And there is no debate going on by people who know what the fuck they are talking about. There is a re-hash of previous arguments between people who know what the fuck they are talking about. All you get here is “my source is bigger than yours.”
And personally I don’t give a shit whether or not you want to listen. It doesn’t change the reality here. Go cry in a corner if you like.