Chef and BJJ player Anthony Bourdain found dead.

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[QUOTE=NeilG;2983140]Mental illness is a bitch. Bourdain died of depression. I wouldn’t brand it cowardice. This is the same sort of thinking that puts mental illness apart from other sorts of illnesses. Nobody says “if only he weren’t such a coward, he would have fought off that cancer.”[/QUOTE]

Grey area homie,Because you better take your cancer,aids or whatever treatment if you got babies to care for.

I dont know or care about his deal really but you better leave this world kicking and fucking screaming if you have minor children to care for that you are leaving behind. If you dont? Go fuck yourself. Cowardice is a mental condition as well.

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[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2983169]Grey area homie,Because you better take your cancer,aids or whatever treatment if you got babies to care for.

I dont know or care about his deal really but you better leave this world kicking and fucking screaming if you have minor children to care for that you are leaving behind. If you dont? Go fuck yourself. Cowardice is a mental condition as well.[/QUOTE]He was mentally ill. If you can’t understand that this means that his reasoning process was severely affected and shouldn’t be judged by our normal standards, I don’t know what to tell you. People like him and Kate Spade and Robin Williams were people who had everything in the world to live for and still got taken out by this insidious disease.

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[QUOTE=NeilG;2983175]He was mentally ill. If you can’t get understand that this means that his reasoning process is severely affected and shouldn’t be judged by our normal standards, I don’t know what to tell you. People like him and Kate Spade and Robin Williams were people who have everything in the world to live for and still got taken out by this insidious disease.[/QUOTE]

You don’t understand bro. He just need to follow the Gracie diet and stop being a pussy.

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[QUOTE=NeilG;2983175]He was mentally ill. If you can’t get understand that this means that his reasoning process is severely affected and shouldn’t be judged by our normal standards, I don’t know what to tell you. People like him and Kate Spade and Robin Williams were people who have everything in the world to live for and still got taken out by this insidious disease.[/QUOTE]This. When you have AIDS, you can reason that you should take your meds for your loved ones. When you are severely depressed, you may a) not even have meds that actually help anything, b) may completely misjudge reality and really believe everyone’s better off without you, c) may not even be able to convince your body to set into motion for taking your meds, even if you understand the importance of doing so, …

All these and more are possible states a severely depressed human may be in. It is judgment AND ability that are affected - plus treatment is hard to get and not reliably helping.

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[QUOTE=NeilG;2983175]He was mentally ill. If you can’t get understand that this means that his reasoning process is severely affected and shouldn’t be judged by our normal standards, I don’t know what to tell you. People like him and Kate Spade and Robin Williams were people who have everything in the world to live for and still got taken out by this insidious disease.[/QUOTE]

Then i truly dont care for who he was as a person.
Robin Williams didnt have any minor children. Dont lump him in with the group i specifically mentioned.

I dont care if someone commits suicide. Thats their right in my opinion. Hell, theres a bunch of drug addicts that are just doing slowly anyway. They should just take the plunge and get it over with. If they have a kid to care for and they bail on them or choose drugs and alcohol over them for any reason they’re a deadbeat piece of shit. They arent good. They are in fact assholes. Youre claiming they were born assholes and somehow they should then be forgiven for being assholes. I say fuck them. Fuck the assholes that it comes naturally to and fuck the assholes that have to work extra hard to become assholes. In the end they are selfish assholes either by birth or by choice but assholes none the less.
Btw since there isnt a blood test or anything concrete to prove these illnesses there is an equal amount of proof that its just fucking cowardness as it is not.

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Cowardice how? They were afraid to face the task of counting their money? These are people who had no reason to kill themselves other than they were suffering from mental illness.

At any rate, I’m done arguing with you about it. I’m feeling dumber just having conversed with you.

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[QUOTE=NeilG;2983140]Mental illness is a bitch. Bourdain died of depression. I wouldn’t brand it cowardice. This is the same sort of thinking that puts mental illness apart from other sorts of illnesses. Nobody says “if only he weren’t such a coward, he would have fought off that cancer.”[/QUOTE]

This will be my final word(s) on this topic, because I do not think he deserves any more attention. He is already getting too much in the media, with of course, some lip service being given to mental health, depression, how nobody notices, etc., etc.

Depression is of course a real thing, and it is an illness, needs to be treated, if the person so affected is willing.

I have to be in a state of cognitive dissonance to handle this.
1.) He was mentally ill, an addict, and depressed.
2.) He had family obligations to a sub-adult child.
3.) He abdicated those obligations, selfishly (IMO, regardless of depression), leaving an 11 year old child behind without her father. And I don’t care how much money she will have, etc. Kids need their parents.
4.) Yeah, I’ve been depressed, very depressed in fact, diagnosed as such, and stared into that abyss more than once. I’ve done (very) shitty things to people I love, and to people I’ve known, and to total strangers. A lot, in fact.

So, on the one hand I have a certain amount of empathy for him, on the other, not so much.

I have much, much more empathy and sympathy for his daughter. In many aspects, he was a super cool Dad, and she is now without him.
Who knows what mental health/emotional problems she will now have because of his actions.

So, cognitive dissonance…

That’s all.

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[QUOTE=NeilG;2983188]Cowardice how? They were afraid to face the task of counting their money? These are people who had no reason to kill themselves other than they were suffering from mental illness.

At any rate, I’m done arguing with you about it. I’m feeling dumber just having conversed with you.[/QUOTE]

I dont care how many reasons he had to kill himself. He had one reason that mattered not to. Anything else is unacceptable.

Money doesnt buy happiness. After about 70,000 a year it doesnt matter what you make. Your happiness will be unaffected by your bank account.

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[QUOTE=ghost55;2983073] I keep myself going on sheer spite.[/QUOTE]

Exactly how i pulled through some of my darkest years right there. Diving into total misanthropy at the same time I will add

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[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2983169]Grey area homie,Because you better take your cancer,aids or whatever treatment if you got babies to care for.

I dont know or care about his deal really but you better leave this world kicking and fucking screaming if you have minor children to care for that you are leaving behind. If you dont? Go fuck yourself. Cowardice is a mental condition as well.[/QUOTE]

how are your examples not grey areas

and cowardice is a trait, not a condition

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[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2983191]I dont care how many reasons he had to kill himself. He had one reason that mattered not to. Anything else is unacceptable.

Money doesnt buy happiness. After about 70,000 a year it doesnt matter what you make. Your happiness will be unaffected by your bank account.[/QUOTE]

Spoken like a person that has never been well and truly in the hole.

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[QUOTE=kimjonghng;2983193]how are your examples not grey areas

and cowardice is a trait, not a condition[/QUOTE]

Its a choice and in the end its our actions that define us not our thoughts or prayers. Being a parent is like most things, it is all about showing up.
If you are gonna off yourself do it before you have kids or after they are grown or youre a dumb cunt too.

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[QUOTE=ghost55;2983195]Spoken like a person that has never been well and truly in the hole.[/QUOTE]

Maybe? Maybe not? Either way i got babies to take care of so the only way i am leaving this mother fucker is kicking and screaming.

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[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2983197]Its a choice and in the end its our actions that define us not our thoughts or prayers. Being a parent is like most things, it is all about showing up.
If you are gonna off yourself do it before you have kids or after they are grown or youre a dumb cunt too.[/QUOTE]

Your post is unreasonable. Choices are affected by brain chemistry, and the brain chemistry of depressed and suicidal people is abnormal.

Depression, drug abuse, and self-harm compulsions related to mental disorders can’t be controlled by just someone’s reasoning or mental faculties alone. If they could be, we wouldn’t need comprehensive rehab facilities, millions of people would still be alive, and nobody intelligent would ever kill themselves because they could just reason it all away after their Come to Jesus moment. Sadly, the reality is most people suffer chronically, which means all the great coaching from experts with experience (sometimes sufferers themselves) is not enough to alter those abnormal thought patterns.

Trying to equate Bourdain’s depression and impulsive decision with a lack of intelligence or love for his child doesn’t align with the facts. Bourdain was not only highly intelligent and artistic, but deeply loved his child. And the child, who I believe he rarely got to see and lived with her mother, may have even been part of his decision. In his head he may have already decided he was a shitty father who his kid was better off without.

Judging the suicidal, especially from a distance and without any real insight, is pretty inhumane.

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There’s a lot of unknowns about how the brain works and free will is an illusion… shit happens.

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[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2983169]Grey area homie,Because you better take your cancer,aids or whatever treatment if you got babies to care for.

I dont know or care about his deal really but you better leave this world kicking and fucking screaming if you have minor children to care for that you are leaving behind. If you dont? Go fuck yourself. Cowardice is a mental condition as well.[/QUOTE]

This is a piece of shit thing to say. Acting like somehow he didn’t love his daughter because his depression got the better of him is just fucking horrible. Eat a dick asswipe.

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[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2983198]Maybe? Maybe not? Either way i got babies to take care of so the only way i am leaving this mother fucker is kicking and screaming.[/QUOTE]

Or helpless and silent as any one of a hundred neurological diseases takes you out, assuming you don’t do what Robin Williams did, and kill himself because his brain was filling up with Lewy Bodies and his funny broke. It’s impossible to tell exactly when the young, zany, but funny Robin was replaced with the old, demented, suicidal one. That’s why when they kill themselves everyone does a collective HUH? And then you realize they were so sick even their beautiful kids weren’t enough to heal their mind. If anything the warped logic of the mentally sick might suggest that it’s better to off yourself while they’re still young, so you can’t fuck them up further with your own madness.

The brain is a funny thing, and it’s nice to believe that you’ll always have the same willpower, executive function, empathy, memory, and moral code you have today, but the sad truth is they are all gone tomorrow, for everyone, and some sooner than others. Anthony Bourdain seemed to have an epic breakdown over a couple of days and only now are people learning his full history, from P-Town onward. When you start to read about how he used to wake up and start the day looking for heroin, it makes sense that he truly did not like himself very much from a very young age, and all that wealth and success on top didn’t necessarily heal those old wounds.

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[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2983198]Maybe? Maybe not? Either way i got babies to take care of so the only way i am leaving this mother fucker is kicking and screaming.[/QUOTE]

Yup. Confirmed that you are taltput of your ass. I guess you’re lucky that way.

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[QUOTE=DCS;2983201]There’s a lot of unknowns about how the brain works and free will is an illusion… shit happens.[/QUOTE]

It’s really obvious when you see a group of sick people trying to get better and they can’t seem to convince each other, even though every story is more horrifying than the last. Alcohol, pills, needles, cutting, or just not getting up out of bed anymore and wilting away.

I remember Bourdain did an episode of his show visiting the Massachusetts coast again (maybe it was Gloucester? I know that place has a big smack epidemic) and met with a support group home of recovering addicts. He made a comment about how when he was a junkie, he used to look at himself in the mirror, hating and internalizing his pain, and then decided to try kicking the habit for good simply because he wanted to live. Now in retrospect, I wonder if that must have been his life every single day, deciding whether to keep living. Wake up, look in the mirror, decide if today is the right day to off yourself. For some people, all the money and family and good stuff in the world is probably not going to really solve the that daily compulsion in their head, making them wonder just how much more they have to contribute before they become the villain, fuck up their kids, screw up their career by Tweeting, or whatever Tony’s personal demon was (and nobody else really ever know what it looked like).

Woody Harelson’s character in “3 Billboards” is a good example. It’s a spoiler so I’ll wrap it up, but it’s good fodder for discussion.

[spoiler]Good cop, family man with kids gets cancer. Decides it’s reasonable to put a horse feed bag over his head and blow his brains out.
Courteously leaves a note for wife: this is for the best. call the PD boys for cleanup…don’t open the bag

Honorable seppuku, or selfish act of family abuse?[/spoiler]

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[QUOTE=Bneterasedmynam;2983204]This is a piece of shit thing to say. Acting like somehow he didn’t love his daughter because his depression got the better of him is just fucking horrible. Eat a dick asswipe.[/QUOTE]

Ask every crackhead, pillhead or heroin junky in prison if they love their kids and they will say yes. Is that love gonna help them with their homework? Is it gonna get them to dance or baseball or band practice, is it gonna make sure they arent hanging with the wrong crowd? Somethings are graded pass/fail. Showing up is one of them. Assholes! The whole lot of them.

Everyone dies. Dying doesnt make someone a saint.