And what would that be?
I really didn’t expect to start a sh1t storm with this thread. To be honest I really didn’t expect to get much of a response at all.
For the most part the responses have been very helpful and given me a lot more to think about.
My “situation” with this thread is that it implys that ability in TCC can be gained solo through with books, or by picking ideas up through the internet. It can’t you only gain ability by doing.
Frankly, I very much doubt, that unless the OP is doing a great deal of Freestyle pushing hands, he will either learn anything or indeed discover anything which in not already prescent in Judo or western wrestling.
No, the first response was some fuckwit saying:
A lot of the taiji footwork works because of foundational practice – the standing and such that develops the ability to keep weight on the heels while shifting it from one leg to another,
You advise “standing” practice! Fuckwit!
It of course does not such thing.
Frankly, I very much doubt, that unless the OP is doing a great deal of Freestyle pushing hands, he will either learn anything or indeed discover anything which in not already prescent in Judo or western wrestling.
Sounds like the OP may be doing suitably analogous to freestyle tuishou and at any rate so what if he stumbles upon something that is in TJQ and Judo and western wrestling. If what he ends up with is more comprehensible given his expoloration to TJQ than it would be from his judo experience, good for him.
His main issue seems to be that he doesn’t want to risk his knees with wrestling-style takedowns, so he is picking up things like looking for ways to weaken and unbalance without diving down or depending on grips. Good for him. Sometimes an idea from another martial art, or from engineering, or baseball, or from a conversation with someone.
The OP isn’t looking for ability in TCC, he’s looking for a slightly different way of conceptualizing the other body his own is interacting with.
No, I’m aware of BJJ and I can assure you that it is in fact in no way entirely unscripted
Unless of course you never shrimped, drilled an armbar or sweeps.
My word for the day is Fuckwit.
Thank you. Then say that instead of rubbish. We all say stupid shit, yes, even you. This now makes sense.
I did ask him how this was being done, he never answered.
This is why I asked, this is how I read the initial post. Someone untrained noticed a similarity in what they do and TCC. They picked up a book (which isn’t necessarily good) or a DVD (same caveat) and asked some questions.
Which is the same way kungfumonkey’s post read with, poor wording. I didn’t get the whole footwork vibe. When explained his definition doesn’t match the “magical footwork” that I think likolaut is talking about.
It’s not the OP, its the advice being given to him through this thread.
If I was on a BJJ forum suggesting that while my standup game is great my ground game sucks so I found a few solo BJJ drills that are just working out great, I would get shouted down.
I wouldn’t expect to be given crap advice (standing! come on!) and encouragement!
If I was on a BJJ forum suggesting that while my standup game is great my ground game sucks so I found a few solo BJJ drills that are just working out great, I would get shouted down.
Yes, you would.
Now, show me where this happened? I see what you are saying but, I’d like to see how you came up with this line of reasoning.
I really don’t see it except, with you steering it in that direction, from your posts.
(standing! come on!)
???
You know, it’s pretty fucking stupid to quote what someone says and then immediately lie about it.
I didn’t say the ball thing was great; I said it works, because it does. I didn’t even say it would or did work for the OP, just that it does work. Then I recommended that he put up a video. In no way or world does that mean that anything “is great!”
Take your idiot act to YMAS.
Which you never did.
What I see is the OP asking a question and you misquoting, cherry picking, and generally being an asshole.
Yes, I’m saying asshole because, I never told him anything. You didn’t tell him anything.
So, there is no “we.” Before you say something, I wanted to get your point and Mike’s
point before I commented.
Right an none of “US” did. See what I did there?
We tell him that solo repetition is great.
No “we” didn’t. How about you ask for a clarification.
MiK3, it is NOT a big deal. liokault is trying to make it a big deal because he is a dipshit. No need to either explain or apologize.
What I see is a whole thread on how you can take aspects of TCC, train them solo and somehow get a good result. Theres still very little talk about the fact that:
You can’t!
Any footwork, push, pull or indeed streering wheel like move is pointless in isolation. If it’s working its because of the hours and hours of pushing hands and good instruction that makes up TCC.
Again, my point, you cant take crap out of a book and just have it work…because that would be like magic!
Also, with out the specifics of TCC, pushing hands etc, I very much doubt if the OP will really find anything new in a TCC book that isnt done better in his competative western grappling, his BJJ or in his friends Judo.
(and come on, he read a TCC book and just had to think about a steering wheel to throw his judo mate!)
Shouldnt you be off doing standing “practice” fuckwit?
I’ve got an idea, how about talking to me? I am not trying to do push hands. I don’t give a shit about push hands. What I saw was a “concept” that could help my game. Will I find things that I couldn’t find in BJJ or wrestling, probably not. But what I had here was a resource I could take advantage of. I can do throws. Actually I have a wicked side suplex, but do you know how much pummeling you have to do to set that up?
What I saw in the Tai Chi book and vids was entry footwork for setting up throws I already know. Does this same foot work exist in other arts, you bet. But what else I saw was a codified set of solo drills for working this footwork.
As for practicing what I have done in the solo drills I do that during rolling. My school does a fair amount of rolling starting in stand up, rather than on our knees. Voila! Unscripted alive testing of the footwork. And with work it has been helping my game.
Back when I wrestled I had solo drills I would do to improve my shooting. Level change, deep step, bang the knee, trap the legs.
Maybe all I needed was a change in my mental game to start being more aggressive with my set ups.
Whatever, the drills are improving my game and I will continue to post my results and ask questions here in the future.
You may comment or not about how it isn’t real Tai Chi, or I’m not really getting anything out of it with out a real TCC instructor, or my improvements don’t really have anything to do with the drills.
It still sounds like elitism and sour grapes to me.
Yes, you can. People do it all the time in Martial arts. You can’t get a good grasp nor a full understanding but, you can pick up aspects from a book. So, no it isn’t a fact.
Now we are up to good result? Who said that, I didn’t?
Any footwork, push, pull or indeed streering wheel like move is pointless in isolation. If it’s working its because of the hours and hours of pushing hands and good instruction that makes up TCC.
Ah elitism rears its ugly head again. As he has said, multiple times, he is working the footwork. He clarified what was helping him and described “a steering wheel motion.” He is not claiming “OMG I have teh r34l Tai Chi.”
He described an aspect that worked for him.
Again, my point, you cant take crap out of a book and just have it work…because that would be like magic!
Your recent point. Yes, you can take stuff out of a book and make it work, you just aren’t doing Tai Chi.
Also, with out the specifics of TCC, pushing hands etc, I very much doubt if the OP will really find anything new in a TCC book that isnt done better in his competative western grappling, his BJJ or in his friends Judo.
Which is something he never said. In this entire thread you keep attributing conversations to Mik3. It almost sounds like you and cullion are PMing each other then, you post your conclusions to this thread.
You said Rubbish, you then said “OMG this thread is Bad,” then you didn’t detail “why” until later. No, this whole thread isn’t about solo practice. Part of this thread was me trying to get you, to explain your reasons about being upset.
When this started you didn’t have a point.
Then youR poinT shifted to magical footwork, then it was solo practice, now it is about learning from a book.
Oh and you accusing everyone of saying everything iis okay.
Thing is people pull shit from books, DVDs, and hell even UFC fights. You aren’t doing any of the styles correctly, you just took an aspect. I don’t condone strictly learning from a DVD or a Book. If they help you realize something, in your training, I’m all for it.
Really, IMO he is doing modified Judo/BJJ take downs with an aspect of TCC footwork. If he started saying he was doing TCC push hands or the actual throws, I’d call him on it in a heartbeat.
He put it out there that “I saw a video of push hands, I read a book, and Tai Chi footwork helped.” I have no problem with this assertion, as long as he understands he isn’t doing push hands or real Tai Chi.snicker
Just like I’m crappling if, I take a BJJ book and incorporate some submissions. No, I’m not doing BJJ but, I did pick something up for a book.
(and come on, he read a TCC book and just had to think about a steering wheel to throw his judo mate!)
Yes, he just fully clarified that in the most recent post. So please, quit acting like “AHA you missed that.”
No, you can’t learn an entire style from a book alone. If a book helps you get an understanding of something, I’m all for it. If he runs around say “OMG I’m a Tai Chi Master” he is full of shit.
pat pat
Shouldn’t you be off pretending that your kickboxing is taiji?
Ok, so learning from a book is ok!
Fuckwit!
LOl I have been “classed” as elitest now by three people on this thread, just because I think that when you are trying to pick new (and really quite complex) things up you should have a coach. In that case, i’m proud to be elite
Come on, ex-competative wrestler, BJJ player with access to a competant Judo resource, discovers a whole new throw by reading a book then doing a steering wheel, dosent strike you as odd? Or is western wrestling and BJJ more limited than I thought?
But other than moan at me, you havent really said much have you?
I think the following quote by the OP equates to “good result”. Guy is competative grappler, year or so in BJJ, picks up a book, throws together some semi TCC drills and is suddenly not being set up for take downs, is noticing a differance with “limited shadow drilling at home” and gets an easy take down and side control against a guy who normally gives him problems…where did I miss read his results as good?
Based on the results, every BJJ player should buy a TCC book!
Yeah, Cullion has two posts on this thread, way back on page 2, none of them were that relevant, yet you have twice felt the need to quote him name…is there something sudo-sexual towards Cullion from you?
Nope, my point has never changed.
No, no your not, and not doing it correctly is a bad thing.
But then
CMA as you do it is very differant to BJJ, unlike OP’s “competative” western wrestling and stand up TCC. Also, it would not be long until (and it probably wouldnt even be a BJJ player) someone came along and posted: hey your crappling sucks, go to a BJJ/judo/sombo/MMA class for god sake! This would be the correct thing for them to say.
If you post your general location, I’ll point you towards a real martial art.
Wow, so you are so retarded you cannot even read the information next to every post I make. Sweet, thanks for confirming that for everyone.