Book are bad so is this derail

Rubbish

In fact, this whole thread is so wrong.

Do you have anything constructive to add?

Do you really dispute that taiji practitioners practiced individual moves from the forms as combat applications?

keep your hair on

Nope. How about an explanation?

Not talking to you. Talking about likolaut and his two posts.

Is this going to turn into a thread where everyone argues with you because, you know him?

Rubbish

In fact, this whole thread is so wrong.

Well, the coaches you consider “the best” are crap.

For example, they never practiced more than two or three form or movements in sequence, in order to develop fighting skill and gongfu,

Practicing a sequence, no matter how short, will not give “fighting skill and gongfu”. What forum am I on btw, MAP?

And were talking about “stance” training as the anti grapple again!

:5no:

Yes. Well the good ones anyway.

As Cullion suggested, the applications are reflected in the (latter developed) form, they are not taken from the form. I’m not even sure how that would work.
Secondly, practising applications is hardly the peak of training is it. It really winds me up when I hear TCC players talk about the fact that they have “applications” like this somehow gives them the automatic right to be considered ‘real’ martial artists. I don’t care about your bloody one step sparring, get on the mat and show it to me while i’m punching you in the head!

So apparently, liokault, training using sequences AND training individual moves are complete wastes of time. How exactly do you train anyway?

Um, with resisting partners and stuff, in a almost entirely un-scripted manner.

Are you still stuck in the thinking that TCC is the hand form and all training must derive from the hand form?

Sequences are almost a 100% waste of time, once you are past a very low ability level and only become relevant if they are easily applicable, if you can add a level of spontaneity and if you have a sliding scale of resistance that can change it from a dance back into training.
For example, a boxer hitting pads with a scripted sequence with a good coach holding the mits will have a very different experience than a TCC player who has taken four steps from the form to practice repeatedly.

Individual moves, the above applies. And one step sparring becomes lame after a very short period of time.

Classic Lio… ha ha,

:bowdown:

Am i on MAP ??

You fuckin’ well want to be!:icon_surp

Gee, the first response to his query began with this clause: “A lot of the taiji footwork works because of foundational practice”

So, you know, you certainly Can Fuck Right Off Now, thankee.

I know! The idea that exercises that improve balance help people keep their balance sometimes is just crazy.

Okay, you’re an idiot, that clears things up a bit. In the unlikely event that you aren’t a troll, I’ll explain:

When I started boxing, we did solo footwork and technique drills before we moved to partner drills (pads, &c) and then sparring. The same was true for wrestling, plus weirder drills that helped build specific strength and flexibility for that sport. My san shou coaches – who taught the US team, including Cung Le – started us with footwork and technique drills, as above. My shuai jiao coach did the same. At The Wat they train exactly the way my san shou coaches did. In Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which I currently train with a number of world champions, we do solo shrimping, solo sprawling, throw triangles in the air, &c, in addition to partner work and sparring.

All of these sports trained the same way: solo movement patterns, partner drills of increasing resistance, then sparring. Taiji, according to the best taiji fighters I’ve met, was traditionally trained thus. The long form is an exercise set and an encyclopedia of solo drills.

M1K3 wants to extract some of those solo drills to work into his existing grappling practice. Seems fine to me.

No. Are you implying that you never work on individual techniques in isolation?

For example, a boxer hitting pads with a scripted sequence with a good coach holding the mits will have a very different experience than a TCC player who has taken four steps from the form to practice repeatedly.

Individual moves, the above applies. And one step sparring becomes lame after a very short period of time.

Are you under the assumption that this is what training sequences from the form meant? I was thinking it meant using them with variations to get the mechanics down and then drilling them with increasing degrees of noncompliance.

Anti-grapple? A guy, that admits he studied Judo, says Tai Chi helped him and this equals anti-grapple?

Yes, this is about to become MAP. People pulling shit out of their asses because, a noob to Tai Chi noticed a similarity and asked for an explanation.

You know, Cullion told me how feels, he is an elitist when it comes to Tai Chi. I guess you’ve moved over to that side.

Seriously, show me the problem. What I see right now is a bunch of cherry picking and assumptions by you and Cullion.

Originally Posted by kungfumonkey
.
I have found that stance training from taiji has made me harder to throw. not invincible, mind you but less susceptible to being pulled or pushed off balance.

He didnt say TCC helped, he said stance training made him harder to throw!

Yeah, a noob who wants to improve his stand up grappling is advised to do ‘magic’ solo footwork training.

No this is what he said:

From practicing both Judo and Taiji, i can say that there are many similarities. The footwork is similar for throws. I have found that, for me, the center of balance in judo moves A LOT more than in Taiji, which seems to feel more stable. Also, in Taiji the arms always seem "connected" to the body in a different way, in that they move in concert with the body. In judo, for certain movements, this concept is incorrect. In Judo I find my arms isolated from my body many times. Not saying either is better, just different.

I have found that stance training from taiji has made me harder to throw. not invincible, mind you but less susceptible to being pulled or pushed off balance.

Yeah, a noob who wants to improve his stand up grappling is advised to do ‘magic’ solo footwork training.
Really? Where?

Normally, he makes very good points, I honestly don’t understand the situation with this thread.

Oh wait, yeah I actually think I do.