[quote=Lebell;2157179]i like no gi better because i get to wear my rashguard and people say i look totally hot in it.
i like to feel sexy.[/quote]
With me its the opposite.I’m hot and manly in my gi.
Been doing sambo for a number of months now, and coach last night decided to mix it up a bit and do a no-gi (no-kurtka?) session. I was boned from the get go. No-gi is not less technical, it is just a difference technique set.
I train in no-gi BJJ, so I’m going to bypass the gi/no-gi argument.
For my money, the problem with submission grappling is quality control. There are a few MMA places in Scotland where they call what they do “submission grappling” to bypass the lack of grappling credentials of the instructor. If you learned all you know from UFC videos and rolling around in your backyard and you try to call what you teach people BJJ, the BJJ community will get their hackles up and at least try to make your life awkward. If you call it submission grappling, the same outrage isn’t there; other grapplers may still think you’re a shitty coach, but they’re unlikely to bother themselves persecuting you.
i’ll say something else, in time no gi/gi bjj grappling whatever will become a mainstream sport, and there will be fashionable and tastefull suits available for the modern metrosexual man.
sometimes i dream about this and wake up screaming.
My experience with Gi and No-Gi has been that the Gi favors the stronger person, while no-gi favors the more maneuverable person. Other people have told me they have the exacpt opposite impression and it seems to be based on which you started with. I did No-Gi for 2 and change years first. I got used to being able to use the lack of friction to escape from things, setup moves, etc… With the Gi on I constantly experience friction lock, I’ll go for sweeps or escapes and get jerked up short because my opponent has a big fist full of belt, etc… Everything is more incremental in Gi. If I want to do a situp sweep I can rarely explode through the entire thing the way I do in No-Gi, it almost always has to be done one micro-step at a time.
Omega: I think that may be what makes people think it’s “More technical” you frequently have to hit every single step behind a technique instead of being able to blow through a few and just hit the move.
I waffle back and forth between loving and hateing Gi about twice a month. Right now I love it because I just mastered bow and arrow chokes and have been one handed choking fools out. A couple of months ago I hated it because I could NOT finish a triangle to save my life because it was so easy for people to stack me because I couldn’t slide back on the mat in my Gi.
So, different problems, different issues, neither is “Better”.
[quote=Omega the Merciless;2157208]How the fuck does a gi make you more technical? Somebody fucking explain that. You know how many times I’ve had to re correct gi orientated BJJ guys because of their fucking concept of using a gi? Doesn’t make you more technical in your grappling.
There are different strategies, there are different holds there are gi chokes if that’s your fucking argument, or is it the fact that you’ve got to be aware of your opponent grabbing different part of your uniform? That’s not more technical.
In no gi how do you pull off sweeps you’ve become dependent upon as a gi player? Because you only go to a no gi school does that mean you can’t learn these maneuvers? Do you guys know how asinine that fucking statements is?[/quote]
Gi allows you- especially at the beginning stages, to “Cheat” and slow things way down so you can think more about what you’re doing and why it is or is not working.
For example I have a great “cheat” I do from half guard on top where I thread the guys sleeve or jacket through there legs and lock them down.
This gives me time to pass and remember things like shoulder pressure and a whole bunch of other technical details.
In No gi with everyone slip sliding out of things I find the pace more frenetic.
Which is not a bad thing but - for beginners especially, when you’re trying not to get choked out, it makes it hard to remember the little things that make techniques work.
The Gi also removes the swet factor from technique.
I am a swety MoFo I think I swet Crisco so in no-gi I can get away with some stuff that I can’t get away with in gi.
[quote=Omega the Merciless;2157208]How the fuck does a gi make you more technical? Somebody fucking explain that. You know how many times I’ve had to re correct gi orientated BJJ guys because of their fucking concept of using a gi? Doesn’t make you more technical in your grappling.
There are different strategies, there are different holds there are gi chokes if that’s your fucking argument, or is it the fact that you’ve got to be aware of your opponent grabbing different part of your uniform? That’s not more technical.
In no gi how do you pull off sweeps you’ve become dependent upon as a gi player? Because you only go to a no gi school does that mean you can’t learn these maneuvers? Do you guys know how asinine that fucking statements is?[/quote]
Yeah, it’s pretty assinine. My school is primarily gi, but a lot of us roll no-gi during open mat at least a couple times per session. There’s certainly some overlap in the skill set, but it’s just like anything else that’s sport specific. You may improve your tennis game a little by building strength lifting weights, but generally speaking, you need to practice tennis to get better at tennis.
Like you said, people seem to think the gi is more technical because there are more ways you can choke your opponent or get choked yourself. I guess no-gi guys should just roll with a pre-tied noose around their necks. They’d be really technical then.
I live in Chicago, 9 months out of the year a street fight is Gi, but in the summer its no-gi
I train 8 hours a week Gi, and one No-Gi. I’m not planning on doing MMA and I like Gi, deal.
To summarize:
If you train No-Gi, expect to get collar choked a lot and slowed down considerably when sparring with a Gi on.
If you train Gi, expect to have a harder time controlling your opponent, needing different ways to set up submissions, and being forced to move and react a bit faster when sparring without a Gi.
Train both.
Also, if you have a preconceived notion that one is always better than the other, you’ve been riding either Gracie nuts or Eddie Bravo’s testes. Congratulations.
Tada! I wish these threads would just die.
This. And the definition of “technical” will determine the what and when something being more “technical”.
oh look…zapruder knows something, look mate, just that you wear a purple belt does not make yo…wait…
nevermind.
im taking notes.
Rorin Pimp is needed here to put everyone in their place.
Is it not possible to demonstrate, learn or perform no-gi techniques with a gi on? Can’t the instructor just show both versions of the move (e.g. this is where you grip for no-gi, this is where you grip with gi)?
Of course rolling would be a different story, but would this not be possible just in terms of learning the techniques and where to grip?
1- a lot of instructors don’t know both.
2- it’s harder to learn as a student that way, hence usually separate gi/no-gi classes at schools that offer it.
To me technical is not an encyclopedic knowledge of technique, technical in grappling terms is having all the little things down, such as knowing from half guard that you need to get the underhooks, stay off your back and create space. Technique is how you achieve that and can very from gi to no-gi however the fundamentals of what you are trying to achieve are the same.
Again hammering my point, is that gi allows you to slow things down and figure things out.
I.E being in half guard underneath and using some go-tard collar choke to keep the guy off you while you analyze what you are doing and realize that you need to upa to get your left arm underneath and to use your right arm to block his hip while you recover full guard.
Again you can do this in gi or no-gi but I have found that things start to come together for my understanding in gi first.
So that’s what I think being more technical means
Why is he going to tell you to go sit in the corner and shut up?
I have nothing to add, because Omega is clearly right, but I would like to say that nogi is my answer to assholes with iron grips.
From another thread I started years ago
Brock Larson on the gi
Saw this quote and link on the UG thought it was very interesting and that Brock succinctly states why gi training is important
http://mmamadness.com/insight.html?newsitem_id=41
Brock Larson: Absolutely. I think every fighter is athletic and they’re probably one of the most athletic fighters in their gym. I’m probably the best athlete in two of the three gyms I compete at or train at. So what the gi does is force you to take the athleticism out of it and forces you to be more technical because if you get your arm in trouble you can’t just athletically pull it out or just slip out of it. You put your arm in trouble with the gi on, the guy’s got a handle and got ahold of it, and he usually bends you arm. So, it’s in your best interest to not put your arm in trouble ever. You get good habits of staying out of trouble, passing the guard correctly, not just flying through uncontrolled. And just controlling your opponent better. That’s my view on it. I think the technical aspect helps me.
From a self defense piont of view, practicing with gi against a no-gi opponent would be a nice change-up, as you (hopefully) have control over your own start of dress, but not your opponent’s. From a training point of view, it could be productive, as you are making it about as hard as possible on yourself, while gaining a only a relative few moves requiring your uniform.
The weird part about that is, even in no gi they are still wearing clothes. Just an unspoken rule not to grab them.
To get around this, I will grapple only completely naked opponents for maximum realism and effectiveness.
I mean, what if you got in a fight at a nude beach?