Anybody make a thread about the Cyborg DQ during his match with Gordon Ryan yet?
[QUOTE=Krampus;3007760]Anybody make a thread about the Cyborg DQ during his match with Gordon Ryan yet?[/QUOTE]
I think you just did.
Tell me about it, I am ignorant but interested.
This should be interesting, to see where people land on the issue. Bobby is a fixture of SoFlo grappling, with no small amount of influence on the scene. But, rules are rules, and he broke them repeatedly, over a grudge.
I’ve never trained directly with him, but I have trained with, and have outside relationships with, some of his students. Those that I know personally would take issue, so “things that make you go ‘hmm’,” is in full effect.
Watched the match. Very boring.
I think Cyborg thought he was in a CJJ match.
People make a big deal about some open handed and forearm contacts.
What would the Schultz brothers say…
[QUOTE=Krampus;3007771]People make a big deal about some open handed and forearm contacts.
What would the Schultz brothers say…[/QUOTE]
The problem is Gordon would have been DQ’d instantly for this shit.
Yes, the IBJJF is wimpy on some things, we have plenty of threads here on the subjects.
As an IBJJF black belt, is he not also a referee? Thus literally in the position to know what is “right,” and what is “wrong,” and to help define that both within the organization, and for his students.
So, it will be interesting to watch how this unfolds.
[QUOTE=Nutcracker, sweet;3007778]Yes, the IBJJF is wimpy on some things, we have plenty of threads here on the subjects.
As an IBJJF black belt, is he not also a referee? Thus literally in the position to know what is “right,” and what is “wrong,” and to help define that both within the organization, and for his students.
So, it will be interesting to watch how this unfolds.[/QUOTE]
I am not commenting on whether what I am about to describe was the right thing to do in this case.
But, there was a long standing tradition of taking a DQ at times to send a message.
Much like a hockey enforcer.
Again, I am not saying it was called for or not in this case, or even on the morality of such a phenomenon.
I merely point out that it was a standing tradition in yesteryear to keep everybody honest, and the idea was that some periodic deliberate bad behavior in response to other bad behavior actually promoted better aggregate good behavior.
That being said, the right frequency should be rare and only in response to clear rule violations on the other side if discussing the premise as to whether or not it is ever called for or could serve the hypothetical useful purpose that I mentioned.
So Gordon pulled guard and Cyborg had no response. So he was penalized for stalling and Gordon got two points. After that Cyborg got frustrated as he had no response to Gordon’s guard and ended up slapping him so hard everyone in the building could hear it. Thus two more penalties. Gordon wins and Cyborg loses.
Is that the gist of it? Didn’t Gordon say ahead of time that he had some kind of neck issue and wasn’t going to be wrestling much and would spend most of the matches butt scooting?
And Cyborg says after the fact that he did it on purpose because he doesn’t like Gordon or some kind of excuse trying to justify why he couldn’t beat him legitimately?
[QUOTE=Diesel_Claus;3007781]So Gordon pulled guard and Cyborg had no response. So he was penalized for stalling and Gordon got two points. After that Cyborg got frustrated as he had no response to Gordon’s guard and ended up slapping him so hard everyone in the building could hear it. Thus two more penalties. Gordon wins and Cyborg loses.
Is that the gist of it? Didn’t Gordon say ahead of time that he had some kind of neck issue and wasn’t going to be wrestling much and would spend most of the matches butt scooting?
And Cyborg says after the fact that he did it on purpose because he doesn’t like Gordon or some kind of excuse trying to justify why he couldn’t beat him legitimately?[/QUOTE]
That’s pretty much it.
[QUOTE=ghost55;3007782]That’s pretty much it.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know…
Jiu-Jitsu would be so much better, and more fun to watch, if open handed slapping, face pushing, and forearm thumping were always allowed.
No eye contact, ear drum pops, or groins slaps, but slapping or thumping or face pushing in any other way, fine.
And if anyone says that would make Jiu-Jitsu MMA, then I would say that you need to train more so you better understood the difference of closed fist, elbow strike, knee, or kick compared to what I described above.
[QUOTE=Krampus;3007785]I don’t know…
Jiu-Jitsu would be so much better, and more fun to watch, if open handed slapping and forearm thumping were always allowed.
No eye contact, ear drum pops, or groins slaps, but slapping or thumping or face pushing in any other way, fine.
And if anyone says that would make Jiu-Jitsu MMA, then I would say that you need to train more.[/QUOTE]
It’s called Combat Jiu-Jitsu and there are multiple other competitions where it’s available as a rule set.
[QUOTE=ghost55;3007786]It’s called Combat Jiu-Jitsu and there are multiple other competitions where it’s available as a rule set.[/QUOTE]
I would just say it is Jiu-Jitsu.
The “nothing that resembles a strike at all” rulesets makes the entire practice more like exactly what the Gracie brothers were trying to avoid happening to Jiu-Jitsu in the first place, when Sport Judo altered the daily and regular practice of Judo as a martial art.
Charity begins at home, and martial arts begin with hitting someone in the face or with the planet, and then breaking their joints or choking them unconscious.
Not hitting them first is like skipping directly to the triple dog dare, or proceeding directly to intercourse without any foreplay.
[QUOTE=Krampus;3007788]I would just say it is Jiu-Jitsu.
The “nothing that resembles a strike at all” rulesets makes the entire practice more like exactly what the Gracie brothers were trying to avoid happening to Jiu-Jitsu in the first place, when Sport Judo altered the daily and regular practice of Judo as a martial art.[/QUOTE]
I would argue the refusal to allow reaping or heel hooks is worse than not allowing strikes.
[QUOTE=ghost55;3007790]I would argue the refusal to allow reaping or heel hooks is worse than not allowing strikes.[/QUOTE]
I think it is ridiculous to not allow heel hooks in the brown and and black belt or “advanced” adult divisions.
I would add that making ‘reaping’ illegal was done purely to make it difficult for Sambo players to come in as walk ons and submit people with leglocks in the upper rank divisions.
[QUOTE=Krampus;3007791]I think it is ridiculous to not allow heel hooks in the brown and and black belt or “advanced” adult divisions.[/QUOTE]
Reaping ankle locks and toe holds should be allowed at blue belt and up.
Too many rulesets…
Do Vale Tudo, porra!!! Problem solved.
[QUOTE=ghost55;3007793]Reaping ankle locks and toe holds should be allowed at blue belt and up.[/QUOTE]
That can be argued either way.
There is an argument for a beginner’s division, whether white and blue belt, or whatever it is called, where there are some rules in place to help the noobs and those transitioning from other sports play while they geared up their experience levels.
Purple belt is really an intermediate division, so that could go either way, in my book.
But, in the advanced (or brown and black belt) division, high amplitude takes downs, greco style slams, reaping and heel hooks, and neck cranks should all be legal.