A positional heirarchy for Grip fighting

Hi guys,

In wrestling, there is a fairly obvious positional hierarchy in regards to the various arm positions or ‘grips’, with things like the double collar tie, two on one and bear hug being advantageous positions, Collar-and-elbow tie and pinch grips being a neutral position, and being on the receiving end of the aforementioned advantageous grips is a disadvantageous position.

Many of these positions do not exist in Gi grappling (You rarely see under hooks in Judo, for example…) because the Gi facilitates much easier gripping. However, there are a finite number of common variations: Standard lapel and sleeve, Cross sleeve grip, double lapel grip and double sleeve, Power grip, European grip and so on.

My question is; has anyone heard of, been taught or developed a hierarchy of Gi grips?

The importance of a positional matrix like this cannot be understated. It is just as important to wrestling as the positional hierarchy of Bjj is to ground fighting - its what makes these Arts so much easier to learn and preform.

The Judo fighters at my club suggested to me that it is simply a matter of preference, but what I suspect occurs is that they all work it out, subconsciously, and that at high levels of competition we might see more points scored with some grips then others. I thought I might ask here for the experience of others in the hopes of preserving me the effort of having to do some sort of study myself.

Whatever the conclusion I come to, however I work it out, I will be writing it up and posting it on my blog here: can’t sleep clowns will eat me.com

I will do my best to give credit where it is due if I take anything directly from this thread.

Check it out!

Thanking you in anticipation of your replies.

[link removed by moderator]

Maybe this wasn’t spam, but when you included the link, I decided to err on the side of caution.

Already done by Jimmy Pedro. “Grip like a World Champion.”

In that case can I not just have the link removed and the post returned to the original forum?

I am happy to make any other necessary edits in order to give people an opportunity to respond, I think its a question with real value.

[quote=Seiryoku Zenyo;2136100]In that case can I not just have the link removed and the post returned to the original forum?

I am happy to make any other necessary edits in order to give people an opportunity to respond, I think its a question with real value.[/quote]
You’re welcome to start a new thread in the AGD forum without the link. Please change the title wording a bit for search engine purposes.

can’t sleep clowns will eat me.com

I thought that finally I wasn’t alone… only to find my hopes dashed by a capricious moderator.

I look forward to the new thread.

PS. Some of the positional heirarchy of gi grips is lost in judo, is it not, by the fact that many advantageous grips are not legal for more than a second or two–double sleeve ends, cross-lapel, pants, etc. The heirarchy would probably be more interesting for BJJ applications, where bending over and various grips aren’t penalized artificially.

Within the current rules it’s still entirely possible to completely and utterly shut someone down with grips without appearing defensive (and in fact, make your opponent appear defensive at the same time). A few of the higher level players at my club can do it with ease. In fact the coach occasionally ramps up the grip fighting intensity on us mere mortals, just so we know what it feels like and can get somewhat used to dealing with it.

If you don’t think this is possible then you either aren’t sparring with any decent players, or they’re going easy on you.

You are right in that the teaching of these strategies isn’t that systematic though, which can be frustrating at times. But I think that’s because beyond a certain point, it’s something you have to develop for yourself in randori.

Done. Thanks.

New post is here: Heirarchy of Gi grips - No BS Martial Arts

Its just a re-post, minus the link.